guitarist's mom

To what degree is NASM accreditation important?

violadad

From the NASM website: < Accreditation, in practical terms, is a stamp of approval; a sign that an institution ascribes to, believes in, and has met an external set of basic criteria for the programs it offers. In some cases, accreditation assists in the transfer of credits from one institution to another. In all cases, it indicates that threshold standards are adhered to in a fashion that provides a base of academic strength and operational integrity. >

Students, Parents, General Public is the link to the FAQ section of NASM. A thorough reading of the FAQs will give you a broad view. The home page is accessible on their menu.

It's a voluntary association standard of ethics, procedures, and peer review by member schools.

nycm

Now I am curious...why are some of the best known music schools NOT on the NASM list? I see Eastman, but not Julliard, for example...is there a reason some schools choose not to participate and others do?

violadad

Mannes and Manhattan SOM are also not on the list, so the three NYC biggies are conspicuously absent, as is Rice.

There are reasons a school would choose not to participate, just as schools not participating in various the surveys/rankings systems.

I don't think anyone will debate the validity of the programs at any of the four absent schools.

Like nycm I too would be interested in the reasons why an institution chose not to participate.

guitarist's mom

right, nycm, that's why I was curious too. In my search for the off-the-beaten path schools for son, Musicians Institute is accredited, so is Ithaca College, and Northwestern, and Case Western. But Berklee is not, and neither is Julliard. That seems odd to me.

So maybe the better question is, why do some schools (apparently) choose not to go through the accreditation process? And given that some do not, what weight should be given the accreditation (regardless of what NASM's position is on it, which is obvious)?

cartera45

Juilliard had a falliing out with NASM back in the 50s when it organized a huge international tour and the President of NASM accused them of using musicians other than ones from Juilliard to build the orchestra. I don't think it has been a member since.

My understanding is that NASM requires a more well rounded musical education - music history, theory, etc. Does that mean that undergrads at Juilliard don't get as much training in theory for example?

lorelei2702

I think it is usually a curriculum decision. Most universities and LAC's have a core curriculum set by general faculty, with refinement accomplished within the departments (school or college of music). The conservatories do not have the same academic priorities, and usually the applied faculty is not concerned about students having such a general education, preferring practice room time! NASM outlines a basic curriculum for each degree and major, and the balance may not be consistent with the goals of the institution.

There is no question that the theory and music history courses of a conservatory will transfer as credits and prerequisites if the student goes elsewhere.

binx

Cartera - speaking anecdotally, I have a hard time believing that Juilliard's theory and history classes are sub-par. Although kids can place out of certain classes, few do. My S had a 5 in AP theory, and did not place out of the first class. (He is good at theory - the "go to" guy for other students having trouble - but it is deep.) Juilliard does not accept transfer credits for a lot of their classes - don't know how much is snob-based, but they like control over what the kids are learning. Of course, like schools everywhere, sometimes how hard the class is depends upon the teacher.

Are their other accreditation organizations? It seems like I heard Colburn was not yet accredited, but by whom?

Sometimes schools don't "need" to belong - I remember thinking that when I noticed that Curtis does not submit it's SAT data to USNWR. (And Juilliard does not use SAT scores at all - totally refusing to play that game.)

edit - cross posted with lorelei - Makes sense that the accreditation would have to do with non-music offerings. As many have noted, Juilliard has very few. Not the place for a bio-chem double major!

violadad

lorelei, that makes a lot of sense. But unfortunately it does not necessarily explain the absence of Shepherd at Rice on the list.

It just seems incongrous that with Rice's rep and well deserved academic standing, that same standard would not apply to Shepherd. Rice does hold Shepherd admits to a two stage admit process, Rice academic as well as Shepherd audition based criteria, and I realize there is of course some discretion in granting borderline academic admits based on musical talent.

Again, this is just my curiosity at work, not a vote of no confidence towards a particular school or program.

binx, per the current list The Colburn School is accredited. I don't know if this is for the music school, the conservatory, or both. Also, Bard is not on the list.

lorelei2702

It might be that the Rice music curriculum is not acceptable for NASM requirements. Looking at the undergraduate requirements in music at Rice, there might not be enough theory, i.e there is no analysis course for some of the performance majors, and there is no conducting course. These may be required for NASM certification, and the general ed Rice curriculum may not leave enough time for those courses, because the applied faculty has other higher priorities. I cannot access the NASM requirements, but my memory from faculty curriculum experiences make me think those were required to certify a degree.

It is quite a balancing act to satisfy the general education core of a school and the demands of NASM and the wishes of the current faculty.....very difficult negotiations.

violadad

lorelei, your insights are appreciated. Even those of us having been through the experience with our own student(s) and consider ourselves somewhat knowledgeable might be scratching our heads on this one.

At least I was.

Your explanations provide some sense in understanding the process.

cartera, the Juilliard comment was helpful as well.

Singersmom07

It is interesting. I'll have to ask at Rice when I am there next week. Can't be because they do not require a well rounded music education Everyone has to take 5 semesters of theory (and no one tests out), 5 of aural skills and 4 of music history. Unless maybe the ones lorelei mentions are not called out sufficiently and there is no conducting. DD has been taking 20 credits a semester to keep up with the general Rice requirements and the music requirements. That will let up some as a Junior and Senior, but then the heavy duty rehearsal times kick in.

violadad

Singersmom07- Member Lists

Scroll down, leave selection at all, click submit.

lorelei2702

As I said, I cannot access the current NASM guidelines, so I do not know for sure what the absolutes are. Five semesters of theory/aural skills is more than the typical four, but that four is usually followed by Form and Analysis, Counterpoint, Contemporary Compositional Techniques, and/or something else, frequently six semesters. That may not be the issue at all...but they will probably be able to tell you at Rice why it is they are not an NASM school.

nycm

Hope someone will solve the mystery of why schools choose or do not choose to participate. Peabody is also not on the list, but NASM seems to include a very wide range of institutions, including degree granting, non-degree, publics, privates, universities, community music schools, etc...so I do not think curriculum is an issue