Artfulmom

We are just starting the process of looking at colleges. My D (sophomore) is interested in composition. She plays piano and flute - she has talent but is far from a prodigy. I'm looking for school recommendations (no conservatories) for composition. Also, I'd like advice in terms of auditions. How good do they have to be, particularly in they will not major in performance? Thanks for any insight.

nycm

Has your daughter had any experience so far with composition/music theory?

violadad

Artfulmom, welcome. nycm is correct in that the more detail you can provide as to your D's composition background, composer styles she admires, summer experiences, formal training the easier it is for posters to recommend some programs that might work.

In the interim, if you use the search function, use composition as your keyword, and choose the "search thread titles" button, you'll see the prior threads on this subject.

compmom

I'm curious, why isn't your daughter looking at conservatories? There are a range of conservatory environments, from free-standing, to part of a college or university (on the main campus or separate),to cross-registration with nearby colleges or universities, and so on. Would your daughter be pursuing a BA or BM degree?

Applying to a college or university for composition will mean doing the usual application plus an optional mailing of score or CD, maybe a list of compositions so far, concert programs, maybe a music resume, music letters of recommendations...separate from the main application. It is us to you, there are no rules. Our daughter only sent one score/CD, mainly out of courtesy, not wanting to overwhelm admissions.

Applying to a conservatory, our daughter had to submit a portfolio of up to 4 scores with CD's. The CD's were all of pieces played by professional musicians. In one case we hired the musicians, in two cases they were provided, and in one case our daughter received a commission. In any case, many schools won't accept a midi recording or Finale or whatever. One school requires at least one hand-written score.

The submission of the portfolios with applications was due 12/1. In late Feb. and early March this was followed by visits to the schools for "auditions," which, in composition, meant 3 hour exams, interviews (4 in a row at one school), and/or overnight composition exercises.

I believe that, at most colleges/universities there would be no audition, or music interview, unless it is a Bachelor of Music program.

Many colleges do have composition strands within the music major. People do go on to graduate school from colleges, to do the MM or MA for composition. It can be a difficult conflict for kids, whether to do conservatory or college. The Peabody Institute site has a great piece of writing on this topic.

Artfulmom

No, other than some very basic things she has done on her own.

Artfulmom

Thanks for the tips. My D has been studying piano privately for 8 years, and playing flute in the school band for 6 years. She has worked her way up to first chair in the second year high school band. She has always enjoyed music but frankly I was surprised when she mentioned wanting to be a music major. In the few minutes I've spent on this site, I can see how incredibly naive we both are on the topic. Her education in terms of theory is extremely lacking and she has not expressed a strong interest in any composers. She has dabbled in compositions on a very basic level on her own.

Artfulmom

Thanks for all the advice. This is all a bit overwhelming. I wouldn't consider the conservatory route because my D is not a prodigy. She is a well-rounded 15 year-old. While she has probably has above average talent, I don't think she is on the scale (pardon the pun) with some truly serious young musicians. She does not spend hours practicing every day. Are we totally off base here? Should she have completed major compositions at this point to even consider this route?

memake

This may be slightly tangential to the OP's original question, but it's how I've been thinking about it lately (my musician child is a junior this year and does not yet definitively know what kind of school she want to go to, by the way).

Your daughter has 4 years available to do something that will make sense for her future. If she can imagine a future in which she is making a living playing music/teaching music/composing, etc. then a conservatory may be the appropriate place for her, regardless of her accomplishments as a high school sophomore in comparison to 'prodigies'. There are conservatories at many different levels; not all are filled with prodigies.

On the other hand, if she doesn't see herself making a life in music, then the conservatory route is probably not a good choice. A B.A. with a music major, minor, or concentration can be a perfectly reasonable choice for someone who wants to explore an interest in composition, but will probably make a living doing something else. Certainly, you're no worse off than you would be with a concentration in just about any other liberal art.

Anyway, you have time to explore! Summer is around the corner; any music/composition programs or options in the offing for your daughter?

Cosmos

My school, the University of Chicago, has a very good music department, and a great composition faculty. The department is small, but quite excellent and is regularly ranked first or second in the country (trading off with Harvard). There are also a number of excellent composers working in Chicago at the moment - Osvaldo Goljiov comes to mind - who your daughter could try to get lessons from if she were to attend UChicago, and the university would help pay for the lessons. At the University itself, we have John Eaton, Shulamit Ran, Easley Blackwood, Marta Ptaszynska, and Kotoka Suzuki teaching composition. We also have wonderful music theory, ethnomusicology, and music history faculty, as well as a number of solid performing groups, and three great ensembles in residence (the Pacifica Quartet, Eighth Blackbird, and the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra). We also have Center for Italian Opera Study led by the great music historian, Philip Gosset, who's on faculty here.

Let me know if you have any questions about the University or music department.

musicamusica

Artfulmom---you might want to consider a reputable summer program next
year. The audition experience, the prep time, and the actual summer program
might help your daughter get a feel for where her skill level needs to be. Plenty of students in the visual and performing arts make up their minds whether or not they are cut out for their feild of interest during summer programs.

FiddleMom

Artfulmom, now is a much better time for your daughter to decide she might be interested in studying music at the college level than August, just as senior year is beginning, as my daughter did!

I would encourage you to try to find someone to tutor your daughter in composition this summer and, as someone said above, to start looking for a summer program for summer of 2009. I would also suggest she consider whether she would prefer to audition on flute or piano, should she decide she wants to do an audition based admission. Then consider whether she needs to have a new private teacher to prepare for the audition.

My own dd and I were quite naive and unprepared for the audition process when she decided that, yes, she wanted to study music in college, if she could find somewhere that would accept that she is first and foremost interested in folk fiddle and jazz violin rather than classical performance. She was entering her senior year, and was suddenly thrust into preparing for a classical audition in addition to doing all her college apps. She is now finishing her first year at a school that is not one of the biggest name conservatories, but is a solid program in a state school of music. She chose this particular school for a teacher that understands her ultimate goal and a BM degree path that will support her interests. It's not a totally perfect fit, but good enough.

I guess my point is that if your daughter is talented, even though the talent is undeveloped, you still have a good year for her to get involved with music at a more serious level and to "try on" the idea of a potential music major to see if it fits.

compmom

Our daughter wasn't doing anything really as a sophomore, in terms of composing. She was taking a very basic theory class at our small, poor quality public school, which led to some piano lessons w/ a theory/composition slant. (She also had played clarinet and guitar for a long time, but not at all conservatory level)

Due to her budding interest in composition, we did make some calls, based on references from the piano teacher, and found a mentor who had a lot of resources (the mentor is a college music prof.) So, in ONE year, she learned a lot about composing from this man, and he found ways to have her music played.

In the last 2 years of high school she did take a theory class on Saturdays.

We were advised by these teachers to get things played and taped, and we were grateful for this advice once the application process started, because she already had 3 good tapes, and them made a last one in Jan. of her senior year, when a quartet played it.

So, your daughter is ahead of ours at this point, in terms of time, if you want to put it that way. Our daughter is not a prodigy, but found something she really loved to do, and feels lucky.

The whole college versus conservatory decision can be hard. I was just trying to describe the process involved in applying, ahead of time, because noone told us!

During high school, anything can happen, I think. The theater kid can all of a sudden do music, the athlete stars in the musical, subtle talents blossom unexpectedly, and it is a wonderful thing, that we don't have to do anything about except facilitate when it happens!

fiddlefrog

err-- when did Osvaldo Golijov move to Chicago?

Cosmos

I dunno but he's in residence with the Chicago Symphony, so he probably spends a fair amount of time in Chicago. I also think I read the other day that he gives classes at some school in Chicago... although I can't recall which one.