datripp

Unaccustomed as I am to life in Singer's World, this question may stand out chiefly for its ignorance. I'll ask it anyway, and risk general derision. Given that All State chorus is one marker (if a minor one) of a young singer's ability, and is included on a college app. resume, is there any qualitative difference between states? That is, are some All States tougher than others, and therefore a better or more meaningful distinction, because of numbers of participants or other considerations? Just wondering....and who else could I ask? Thanks!

violadad

There's a similar question to your's here All-State Chorus: How Important Is It?

There are a number of variables at play. There are no national standards for a selection process. Some states limit participation to public schools, some are open to all if the teacher holds specific professional association membership(s). Many studying privately or those that are homeschooled do not often participate.

In the case of instrumentalists, there are a number of students who are pursuing music studies at such a high level that all-state is considered a diversion, a waste of time, or simply playing to a lower level. I'd imagine this would also apply to vocalists.

Some selections are political; adjudication can vary greatly, some programs mandate "x" number from each geographic region, regardless of score.

It is one measure of relative talent across a peer base, but by no means a hard indicator of ability or potential. It's one data point. Stronger ones would be participation in high level audition based summer programs, festivals, local/regional competition placements.

cartera45

I agree with Violadad. If there is a higher level chorus available in the area - most likely an auditioned one - then I would choose that over all state. My D goes to a performing arts high school that doesn't do choral work so she didn't have to make the choice for high school, but she elected to take an instrument in middle school rather than the chorus because she was already in a local children's chorus. None of her friends who are going to college as music majors did all state and it didn't seem to impact them in any way.

Momsinger

I never made All-State back in my day (many moons ago) in Connecticut. Nonetheless, I managed to go on and have been a working professional singer for the last 30 years.
These kids are SO young. Remember that singers' voices do not mature until they're in their 30s or so. Please encourage your young singers to remember that in the midst of so much evaluation. An 18-year-old singer is in his or her vocal infancy. Whether they make All-State or any other competitive marker is a terrible predictor of future success.

schleen

In addition to what's already been posted in reply to your question, datripp, I perceived that conservatory admissions for a BM were based almost solely on audition. When my D and I visited Cincinnati, we asked how much the audition weighed in on the admissions decision, versus, say, NATS competition results or summer music camp experience. The answer: it's all audition. She wasn't admitted at Cincinnati, but is going to another conservatory. The audition was the determining factor.

That being said, experience in performance, whether its in an All-State chorus, a community-based production, or an audition-based summer camp/chorus all add up to the outcome of a more poised performer at an audition.

In a BA program at a university or LAC, though, grades and total resume do enter into the equation.

mercymom

Agree with all of the above, ie, some form of repeated experience with an audition process throughout high school helps to condition the student so that they don't get too anxious about auditioning. You really need to be comfortable auditioning before judges prior to those college auditions as they are indeed the crucial aspect of your application. Plus, it was our experience that most of the application forms asked what your ensemble experience was and to list same. Most of the programs my S applied to required participation in choir ensembles at the school and I think they like to see that you have done that extensively over time. Plus it's fun.

vicariousparent

D/D loves singing in All-State (NJ). She does it for the opportunity to sing nice pieces with talented kids under talented choral directors in a non-competitive environment. Well, it is competitive to get in, but once selected, you are not competing, which makes it a great experience.

In our area the really serious, conservatory bound singers and other music students rarely have time for All-State because their Saturdays are taken up by Juliard/MSM pre-college programs.

As for admission to (non-conservatory) colleges, I suspect that participation in All-State demonstrates that a) you really like to sing, and b) you are a pretty good singer. More than that, I'm not sure.

jazzzmomm

I know I've said this before, but here I go again. My son's teachers at MSM precollege always poo-poo'ed the All-State thing. They seemed to feel it was a waste of time. That worked fine with my son's attitude that the judging criteria put you in an arbitrary box--he's young and idealistic, what can I say? I know from having another kid who was All State and All Eastern for voice that it's a good experience and probably looked good on his college application in terms of showing work ethic and ability.

BassDad

I think a lot depends on the individual kid. My experience in NJ is that there are a fair number of conservatory-bound kids participating in All-State, All-Eastern and so forth. I guess we are a little farther away from NYC than vicariousparent because we only know one or two kids who did the Juilliard pre-college program, yet we know many more who became performance majors at places like Oberlin, Carnegie Mellon, Westminster Choir College, NEC and St. Olaf.

I agree with violadad that All-State is just one data point and that it is not as strong a data point as some others. It is an enjoyable way to get some excused absence time from school and to go play music with like-minded friends.

thumper1

DS and DD did their extra instrumental "stuff" through a precollege program at Hartt, but DS was in All State (as was DD), New England Music Festival and MENC Eastern Division.

Neither of them did choral work at their school and therefore could not audition for vocal all state (they didn't care). Their choral work was done with a children's chorus where they got a much more varied and challenging repertoire of music than the school offered. We supported this decision.

musicmom1215

In response to the title of this thread (All-State Vocal Competition; Which States (if any) Are The Toughest?), I will say that making All-State choir in Texas is very prestigious and very competitive because Texas is a big state and there are only so many chairs available. Individuals compete against everyone; the competition is not based on the size of the school like it is in band, sports, and everything else. I believe the competition is open to all students of Texas Music Educators Assoc (TMEA) members, not just to public high schools. It is a big deal here. Most do not have access to the other singing opportunities available on the East Coast and in the large cities here, so most participate in All-state.