ImperialZeppelin

Interesting read on people's perspectives...

Being that Peabody is in a major city and the safety of my D was paramount in my mind, the fact that "that one could easily enter the school in September and not set foot outdoors until heading home for Thanksgiving" was a definite positive for the paranoid parents that we are. We saw this as a major advantage to let's say Eastman where the dorm was separated from the academic buildings by a short walk, but past the YMCA. At least we knew that at Peabody, late night practice sessions didn't necessitate finding an escort to get back to the dorm. And, from a student perspective, being able to run to those 8:00 AM classes in one's jammies even in the winter has definite advantages

D is now in her Junior year there and continues to love it and thrive there. The key to our decision was that the school provided the correct educational and performance enivronment for her, which it has. The safety perspective was just that little extra icing on the cake for the parental units.

violadad

As this thread got pinned, the Master List of '08 acceptances got unpinned.

Makes sense to keep the most overall info current.

On the same token, the Master Lists of Final Decisions can be a great resource for direct contact of a student (or parent of) about actual school/program specific experience.

The last two years final decision threads:
Master List of Music School Acceptances, Fall 2008
Master List of Music School Acceptances

othermusicdad

I’m contributing to this thread for two main reasons – 1) to say thank you to the cc music major contributors for the great advice provided over the last year and 2) to offer some observations of my own about that same year for prospective music majors and their nervous parents.

My D is now a freshman viola performance major. I won’t say where just now because it’s not important although it is easy to find in the various threads.

We dropped her off last week and said our tearful goodbyes. This Monday was her first day of classes - music theory at 8AM, ouch! We pray that parents’ weekend will arrive quickly.

As a family, we searched long and hard for the RIGHT music school with the RIGHT viola professor. It had to be the right school/professor for HER and no one else. Yes, we were paying the bills, but because the prof/student relationship seemed so personal, especially for a music performance major, the fit had to be perfect. Fortunately, we knew a symphony violist/university professor who helped us with an initial list, and we took it from there.

I was a novice when the process started, and I still consider myself a novice. Only now, I know enough to be dangerous by giving advice and opinions. I expect and hope that the many experienced contributors to the music major threads will correct my errors.

My advice and observations (in no particular order) –

1. Start off with a plan - wandering around aimlessly from university after university is very expensive and not overly productive.

2. Read the posts on the cc music threads.

3. When reading the threads, look for firsthand knowledge about specific schools and teachers. Hearsay isn’t always helpful or accurate.

4. Buy Peterson’s College Guide for Performing Arts Majors.

5. Read BassDad’s “One Family’s Experience”. You can find it in these threads. You will find it has strange similarities with your upcoming journey.

6. Ignore, I repeat, ignore the old USNWR rankings of music schools. They are outdated and irrelevant and have nothing to do with whether or not a school is right for your child. BTW – my D attends a school that is highly ranked on that same list. Still, the list is irrelevant.

7. Make an initial list of what is important to your child – not to you, but your child – about the music school he/she attends and the teacher he/she studies with.

8. There are good arguments for conservatories and good arguments for non-conservatory music schools. If your child wants all music and only music all of the time, perhaps a conservatory is the solution. My impression is that a very intense music performance education is also available in a large university setting, but the student also gets the complete university experience as well. Again, that may or may not be important to your child. This was the choice my D went with.

9. Understand that just because your child is the best violinist, violist, cellist or whatever in the school, district or regional orchestra, it doesn’t mean music school admission is a slam dunk. At the top schools, the competition is extremely tough. On audition day, it will be very, very clear that your child is just one top dog in a group of many, many top dogs. I remember sitting in the practice room at one audition (a big mistake) while my D warmed up. I could hear the violists in the neighboring practice rooms. My D was good, but so were they. I remember thinking - this is a crap shoot!

10. If your child doesn’t currently have a private teacher or someone to help prepare audition pieces, get some help now. Preparing for audition day is not a casual process. Work with someone who knows what they are doing.

11. My D is a violist. At most of the schools, audition day required that she play two contrasting pieces of her choice and sometimes a specific required piece. She was also asked occasionally to play scales/arpeggios right at the beginning of the audition. He/she should know most major and minor (N, H, M) scales. The audition material almost always indicated she should be prepared to sight read. She was never asked to do so. At some schools, there was time for some back-and-forth with the professors. At other schools, there was none. I believe the longest audition was 20 minutes.

12. So there you have it – your child has twenty minutes to show very experienced musicians/teachers what they have to offer. YOUR CHILD SHOULD BE PREPARED AND WELL-REHEARSED. The advice I’ve seen on the various threads about having one November audition for early decision is good advice. Even if the school is not your child’s first school, the early audition helps build confidence.

13. VISIT THE SCHOOLS AND HAVE “LESSONS” WITH THE APPROPRIATE PROFESSOR. In my view, this was the most important thing we did for my D. First, my D was much more comfortable on audition day when the viola professor knew her and had heard her play before. Whether it was true or not, she felt like she had an advocate in the room. Secondly, however, within a few minutes during that initial lesson with the professor, your child can normally tell if the prof is a yes, a maybe or a no way in terms of someone he/she wants to work with for four years.

14. The tour of both the campus and the music college/building is extremely important. Again, your child can quickly tell you if this is the place where he/she wants to spend four years practicing and performing.

15. I’ve read lots of contributors talk about double majors/double degrees. Make no mistake about it - music performance is not an easy major. My D takes 17 required credits this semester. Eighteen is the max the school will permit. That workload does not include the expectation that music performance majors will practice four hours each day. Even if your child is Einstein and Madori all wrapped into one, evaluate the requirements of a double major carefully before jumping in. BTW – several schools required that if she accepted a BM scholarship, she also agreed to waive the right to pursue a double major. They know how difficult music performance is along with another major.

16. BA in Music and BM in Music Performance is not the same degree at all. This may be obvious to some contributors, but it’s not always obvious to the novice. An LAC with a BA in Music may not be what your child is looking for if he/she is after a performance degree, but some LACs may have just the right prof and program, so you never know.

17. In a high profile or large music school, the ratio of undergrad/grad is important as is the number of students in each studio and for each instrument. In many schools we visited, the university orchestra was an audition only group. In other words, there is no guarantee your music major, even your music major on scholarship, will be seated in the orchestra.

18. The undergrad/grad ratio is also important in understanding whether or not your freshman music major with be studying weekly with the famous professor or spending more time working etudes with the DMA candidates.

19. Don’t make any assumptions about music scholarships. You are often competing for acceptance/placement in a studio based on the others auditioning for the same instrument, but you may be competing with all music majors for scholarship money. At some schools, we were told that right up front. If the school has just graduated all of its oboes and bassoons and has a surplus of violins, guess which freshman will be offered the scholarships? Find the right school, the right professor, audition well and keep your fingers crossed about the money, but don’t assume it will be offered.

20. At many of the non-conservatory schools, the music admissions department DID have some sort of input to university admissions. I know this is not the case at all schools, but the music school/college/department website will normally say so one way or the other.

There is much more that I can’t think of just now, but I expect others will correct and add to this. Please been gentile. I am still an novice, but a seasoned novice if there’s such a thing.

Finally and with all due respect to the many contributors on the music major threads, there really are great music school in the west and on the west coast – both large university based music colleges and high profile music conservatories. Many of the prestigious schools in the east should certainly be on anyone’s list, but don’t forget the schools out west. By doing so, you may miss out on the perfect school and the perfect professor for your child.

violadad

per othermusicdad:
Yes there are. San Francisco Conservatory, Colburn, USC/Thorton, U of the Redlands, U of the Pacific, U/Colorado/Boulder, U/Denver, Colorado College , ASU to name but a few. Unfortunately, they are not often discussed here in detail, but include some excellent faculty, facilities, programs and peers. They can be just the right program depending on instrument or discipline.

Do not exclude them just for name recognition of comparable east coast/midwest options.

othermusicdad, an excellent post. Thank you.

othermusicdad

Thank you.

For anyone from California, California schools can be very nicely priced. Several of the Cal State schools - Northridge, Long Beach, LA, Sacramento and SDSU -offer both a BM and an MM. UC schools offering these degrees include UCI and UCSB. UCLA has a rather large music school and a new gift from Herb Albert, but they do not offer a BM only a BA.

For all three UC schools, you are in if the music department wants you and you meet the UC eligibility requirements.

Sorry about the typos in the last post! I guess I depend on MS Word a little too much.

SJTH

Othermusicdad, that was really a terrific summary--and definitely triggered some questions to ask the schools my son is interested in. Thank you!

-Allmusic-

OMD, we never looked at any west coast schools, simply because they were too far away. S would have been delighted to look at USC Thornton, for one, but we drew the line at Chicago/Ann Arbor, since we still could ostensibly drive to either in a day.

For us, as much as name recognition or teacher preference, the caliber of overall musicianship was of paramount importance to my son. A lot of schools that have music programs or schools of music, and many with BM degrees, simply did not have the level of musician he wanted to play with. We found out a lot by listening to Mp3 files available on school websites, and some schools were eliminated right from that.

There are so many different variables that make a certain school or program right for different kids, and I agree that it is best to have eyes wide open. On the other hand, the country is huge and full of so many schools, that there have to be some limiting factors, or everyone goes crazy. Geography, alone, can be one very good limiting factor.

mythmom

Conservatories only or facilities, etc. at LAC's where my S is a music major?

binx

Mythmom - I think you're asking if your S's experience would interest anyone on this thread? Absolutely!

violadad

binx, I'm glad you figured it out. I'm sitting here scratching my head.

othermusicdad

Allmusic,

You're right - it is a big country. I certainly understand the need to limit the search. My D limited her search to schools in the west, so we may have missed out on that perfect program back east. I, however, do think she's found a great home. Time will tell.

When we made the original profs/schools list with our violist friend, he helped us weed out some of the schools with potentially good profs but weaker overall programs. Again, you are absolutely right - the caliber of the other musicians and ensembles is extremely important.

Fortunately, we were able to visit most real candidates on her list. Based on our experience, I strongly recommend visiting when school is actually in session.

At several of the schools, this enabled us, rather my D, to listen to a chamber group, the university symphony or even sit in on a few classes. This certainly helped her measure the caliber of the program. At one of the schools, she had the opportunity to speak with a DMA viola candidate about a whole range of things.

schleen

I can also chip in a bit of info on Peabody, along with a statement about conservatories vs. LACs/universities that a student there articulated for us...

The studio teachers at Peabody have an unwritten but adhered-to policy to meet with prospective students and give them a sample lesson. We learned at orientation that this is not a school-imposed requirement but a service they've decided as a group to offer. It's a very valuable experience that gives applicants so much information. Many schools offer this, and we took advantage of it at Peabody and all the schools my D applied to.

When we toured Peabody my D's junior year of high school, we were absolute greenhorns regarding the BA/BM distinction and the other differences between a conservatory and a university or LAC-based music program. Our student tour guide said something that stuck with us: "If you come here, you'll be hanging around with musicians all the time. On the other hand, if you come here, you'll be hanging around with musicians all the time." Here's what she meant:

At a conservatory, you're surrounded by music all the time. You hear it, you think it and everyone around you is immersed in it. Your dormmates understand what it means to rehearse and how the time you spend learning music is allocated differently than time spent studying, for example, history. Most of your time is spent DOING it, not STUDYING for it.

At a university of LAC as a music major, you aren't as immersed in music. Your dorm will have kids who are music majors, chemistry majors...all sorts of kids. They're writing papers, doing lab write-ups, etc. You can step away from music and hang with them when you need to or want to. The girl majoring in chemistry won't be having the same learning experience that you will, so you can sort of disconnect when you interact with her.

Neither of these models is the right one or the wrong one. They're just different from each other. There are upsides and downsides of being either always surrounded with music or being able to pull back from it.

We really appreciated this insight from a student who understood it on a personal level. It was something my D thought a lot about during the application and audition process.

violadad

Just adding these two links to a couple of classics to aid the neophyte.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...s-ability.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...xperience.html

Singersmom07

DD looked at a number of schools for vocal performance. 2 that were at the top of her list based on scholarships and teachers:

Westminster Choir College at Rider. This is a self contained campus separated from the main campus. We never visited the main campus. DD was impressed with the instruction and the students there. She took a sample lesson and sat in on another lesson and an ensemble rehearsal. Everyone was very friendly and accommodating. She liked the variety of vocal experience available and the opportunity to minor with musical theater. There are a lot of undergraduate opportunities. She did not like the practice rooms in the dorm basements that were not particularly sound proofed. She did like the proximity to Princeton and students she talked to said that there were opportunities for interaction there. It is also an easy ride into NY City for shows. It is a small campus and she eventually decided she wanted something larger. We also visited in winter and it was kind of grey.

Rice University. Rice is a beautiful university. DD fell in love with the residential college system and the look and feel of the campus. She likes socializing with other than music students and participating in other activities. She likes being in classes other than music with students who care about the subject and make the class interesting. All classes are small. Shepherd Music School at Rice is housed in a beautiful facility. Smallish program with graduate students integrated in program. Only about 35 total vocal students but they intend to grow some I believe. . DD loved the teacher and studio. Mix of grad and undergrad in the studio help each other and feels like a family. There is flexibility in enabling performance opportunities and attention to individual students. They got together last year and did a recital across 2 studios with the freshmen girls, who are all friends. She does not like the mandatory Chorale that is open enrollment, including community members. She preferred ensembles with music majors. But they do perform great works so it comes out OK in the end. JR year they transition to opera theater so it will change. There is an opportunity to switch to BA in music after one year if performance does not suit.

DD also visited, auditioned at and was accepted at NYU Steinhart, Temple, Peabody and UCLA. Don't have much to add about Peabody. For her it was too small. She liked being in NY for NYU. I did not get much feedback from her about the rest. She did not like the neighborhood for Temple and had a bad experience with another of the auditoners there so she did not have a good impression. I could not get much more out of her. UCLA is a different kind of program. It is a BA and they use a team teaching approach instead of a dedicated studio. Not completely sure how it works though. The campus was large and beautiful. There is a bus that takes the students down to the beach a which she liked. But in the end it was too far away. They are putting a lot into their program so it might bear watching to see how they change it if at all.

othermusicdad

Hello again. I thought I'd mentioned one more thing about audition day that seems important.

My D's candidate schools were limited to the western US mainly for logistics reasons and her desire to be close to home. Again, we visited most of the schools and professors in advance, but each audition day was a bit different.

She started preparing her audition pieces well in advance. For viola, it appeared there were some fairly standard pieces from which to choose - movements from Hoffmeister, Walton, Teleman, Stamitz, Hummel. Most places also required a Bach cello suite transcribed for viola. (Heck, I notice even Julliard lists these pieces as audition candidates, so we must have been on to something.) Several of the schools also required a pre-screening CD/DVD. Most schools also required that live audition pieces be played from memory. Regardless of whether or not memorization was stipulated, most kids seemed to go the memorized route.

The point of this post is not to provide a list of viola audition options, but to highlight something that did make audition day "interesting" in some cases - accompanists. Some schools didn't require an accompanist. Some schools required that a least one piece be played with an accompanist.

At two of the more local schools, we brought our own, which meant spending some money, but my D got to practice with the accompanist well before hand. At another school, accompanists were provided by the school and my D had about ten minutes with the accompanist before going into the audition room. This made my nervous violist even more nervous.

In the end, she decided that if the school didn't require an accompanist, she would play the longer candenzas from her selected pieces. She felt it gave her better control of the audition. If she had a choice between accompanist and no accompanist, she went without one and played the cadenzas.

To those parents whose children have never been to a college audition and perhaps this isn't true everywhere - it was were we went - your child will never get through his/her entire prepared piece(s). The audition committee will typically stop him/her right in the middle of the piece and ask him/her to play something else. We learned this over time and realized it was important to put a best foot forward.

In my D's piece, her viola teacher told her the cadenza best showed both her musicality and technical ability, so when she had the opportunity she went with that first. At one audition, she was playing the movement from the beginning (as requested) with the accompanist. They stopped her after a minute or so and asked to her skip forward to the cadenza.

Finally, I only know how my D's auditons went, but it may be that most disciplines have a standard piece they ask everyone to play. For viola it seems to be a specific Bach suite. Maybe they are trying to compare apples to apples. Perhaps another contributor has better insight.