tango14

othermusicdad, Bravo! This is a tremendous list. Between it and bassdad 's story, you provide such advice and reassurance to newbies that things will work out for the best for our musical children.

I'd like to add a few items related to jazz studies.

1. If your child is interested in pursuing a degree in jazz, start composing your list of schools very early, freshman/sophomore year even.

2. If schools you are interested in offer summer jazz programs, enroll your son or daughter. Attending such a program will give them a real feel for the campus environment and facilities. They will get to know faculty/upper level student counselors, live in the dorm, eat in the cafeteria. They will be able to use the performance and practice facilities, lockers and such. Just as a sample lesson might give information, participating in a summer camp will allow students to feel familiar with the environment/personnel when audition time comes. (If you are considering many schools, it might take 2 summers to fit in a number of camps).

3. Try to visit a jazz ensemble class, both large & small, at the school to see how they are conducted.

4. Look for application/audition procedures that go beyond the norm to try to get to know the candidate. While this is important advice for all prospective students, improvisational abilities in jazz are sometimes harder to determine from a brief audition where a student is playing with a reccording or with unfamiliar musicians than if there are several means of evaluating the candidates. Is a classical audition required as well?

5. Know whether your child is comfortable with studying both classical and jazz. Some programs require it, others don't.

6. Look at other musical requirements for jazz performers. What kind of piano proficiency is required of all students? Jazz saxophonists are usually required to double on flute and clarinet as well. Some programs require basic proficiency on drums & bass (if that is not your specialty) before graduation. This is something your child can get started on ahead of time.

7. Look at performance opportunities. How many & what kind of jazz ensemble performance opportunities are there? Are they required? Is there much/stiff competition from non-jazz musicians for placing? Are there opportunities for off-campus performances (this can be checked on-line in a lot of cities for the kinds of performances that happen around town)? If you visit the school, attending an off-campus performance and talking to the musicians can be helpful.

My S applied to 1 university/3 conservatories, 2 of which required pre-screening CDs. He was invited for 3 auditions, accepted at all 3 and is attending his 1st choice conservatory. His audition experiences were quite varied. The first was a 15-min. interview/audition in front of 2 faculty members where he played a classical piece, 2 jazz pieces to a play-along CD, & sight read. #2 was a 15-min. audition (no specifications) to a play-along CD & some ear training with two unidentified individuals plus a 15 min. interview with someone in admissions. #3 involved a 15-min. classical audition with ear training in front of 2 faculty members, a 15-min. jazz audition with a live rhythm section (in front of 3 faculty), and a 1-hr. jam session with other auditionees (in front of 5 faculty, a total of 7 different individuals). We learned about all these audition structures from the school's web sites, but we far prefered the thoroughness of #3 where we felt that our S really got to show himself to his best advantage and then they could make an informed decision.

We dropped S2 off a week ago. He's already hooked up with 3 other students (his freshman roommate & 2 sophomores) and they've been practicing together.

What an adventure! Thanks to all of you for your insights and advice.

SJTH

Tango14, thank you SO much for giving some jazz advice. While some of the music school/audition info is universal, its hard sometimes to find jazz specific information, particularly because most schools offering jazz degrees require a pre-audition screening CD--and they all have different criteria. We just finished recording my son's pre-audition tape that has 7 songs that fit all the schools pre-audition criteria, so we'll choose the songs from those 7 that fit each one. It seemed a monumental task, but it's a hurdle we're over now--well, almost over. He has one more to go, which is accompanying an MP3 that one school requires.

Anyone else who wants to contribute jazz info would be greatly appreciated!

thumper1

>>At a university of LAC as a music major, you aren't as immersed in music.>>

Depends on the program. DS went to a large university with a conservatory type music program. He spent all of his time in the fine arts building, practice rooms, and with the music students with whom he studied. He didn't have the time (nor the interest) in meeting folks who were studying other disciplines at his university. He lived with music majors all four years, and even his job was with music majors. He even was able to take some of his university "core" requirements (and there were not very many...plus he placed out of some with AP scores) as music courses.

I'm sure there are some music performance programs in universities where the students do not do music 24/7...but to be honest, I can't think of any. The reality is that if you are a serious musician...you WILL be doing your music 24/7 regardless of the type of college in which you are enrolled.

tango14

SJTH, ah those pre-screening CDs. We went through a nightmare with that one. I began pestering S to start recording months before he did. I asked him why he didn't start recording things whenever he had the opportunity to play with someone (I had mastered recording all his performances, sometimes to his consternation when I set up my laptop in front of the band at a gig). That way he would have things to choose from and not be scurrying at the last minute.

Well, he started with a month left and didn't want me involved in the recording. He had some musicians to play with but not the one's he had played with for years. He ended up having to record one selection with his teacher accompanying him on piano rather than with a rhythm section.

My advice is to start recording at least 6 months prior to audition time and to plan to do a "recordable" version of one or two pieces at each gig or opportunity. That way, you'll have a repertoire of pieces to select from.

jazzzmomm

What tango said about checking the local music scene is great advice. Jazz students usually want the opportunity to play out in places. I checked the websites of cities in which the schools were located, scouring the night life pages for clubs and actually reading their calendars to see if local jazz students got to play. Some places even have standing nights for the students of local schools. You can see if the faculty are playing at local clubs, and that seemed like a good thing to me, too. I know my son has been trying to see faculty from his college since around the time he got accepted. Watching jazz musicians improvise is important education!

SJTH

We're lucky to have a vibrant jazz scene here in Portland (OR) that encourages student jamming prior to 9 pm (when liquor laws require under age people to leave) Unfortunately, because he's looking at schools in the midwest and east, we won't have the chance to see teacher/mentors prior to his auditions (at least) and enrollment somewhere (more likely). You all are so fortunate to have that chance!

stringfollies

sjth --

i would encourage you to try to set up sample lessons at the time he goes for auditions - we found several faculty were very amenable. It helped him to select his teacher and it also calmed him for the auditions as they tend to want to encourage and not over-criticize at that sensitive moment. worked very well for my son.

SJTH

Stringfollies--thank you! I had no idea professors would do this at audition time--I guess I just assumed they'd think it a conflict or something. We will definitely be on top of that!

-Allmusic-

At the schools my son applied to in jazz, not only were the teachers not available for lessons, only one was even present at his auditions. He had had a lesson with this teacher before, and it definitely made him feel comfortable to know the teacher (they had a two+ hour lesson in his home, about a year earlier). I really recommend, if at all possible, visiting schools/having lessons/sitting in on ensembles/jamming with kids BEFORE the actual audition. My son dropped four schools from his initial list after visiting them, and was glad not to have prepared an audition for schools he didn't want to go to anyway. These are schools that suit/fit other students really well, so it goes to show how personal these decisions are, and the value and importance of visits.

For his classical auditions, his teacher felt strongly that having lessons with teachers at the same time as auditions might compromise the audition. She didn't want new technique or ideas introduced right beforehand. Again, that might depend on the instrument, and I don't think it would have been an issue for jazz, at all, had the teachers even been available.

At all of his auditions, there were a lot of adjudicators. He had nine people from the department at one conservatory, five at another. He got to play most of his repertoire (he played probably a half hour) at the classical auditions. At the jazz auditions, he had to play with other college students everywhere; some required a prepared list of tunes, while others asked him to play along with tunes they provided. At one he had to do rudiments on the snare; at another he had to play a melody using no sticks. At one audition, students were required to audition with other potential students, which my son did not like at all. All had several jazz faculty members adjudicating; a couple videotaped the audition. The jazz auditions were typically 15 or 20 minutes. At all auditions but one, there was some sort of theory placement test.

For all of his auditions, except one, he had to send in pre-screening CDs, which he didn't do until November. I do not recommend waiting this long, as it was stressful getting them done with his busy life, but he had already done DVDs for Grammy and NFAA in October. It was hard to find the time to do so much recording. Two conservatories scheduled their auditions on the same day for his instrument, so that required a bit more juggling. Some schools did not let us know the day or time of his audition until about two weeks before we were expected to be there, which makes scheduling travel a little bit hairy. For one, I was sure he would be invited to the audition (lessons in advance had given us that impression), so got flights anyway. This was obviously risky, but felt that we couldn't wait on flights and hotels until so close to the audition, for cost alone.

Great advice from everyone so far! Hope my contribution helps!

SJTH

Thanks, Allmusic, as usual. Of course re-visiting the schools to take a lesson, knowing we'll be buying plane tickets for auditions (at least we hope so) wouldn't be financially possible, sigh. I can't even tell you how glad we are to have the prescreening tapes done now. He played so much this summer, was on fire after the Eastman camp, and performed well. I think if we had waited any longer, the pressures of senior year, as well as varsity soccer, would only dilute the quality of his playing. Now if we could just get him writing some essays....

I can't reiterate enough how valuable the experience in this forum is to we novices. If you had told me 11 years ago my son would be "trying out" for something, I would have bet a million dollars it would be a soccer team, not a jazz program!!! Thanks again to all.

violadad

Again, so it's not missed by newbies, an excellent past thread on second thoughts from those having gone through the admissions process:

Since Hindsight is 20/20, What Would You Have Done Differently?

stringfollies

sjth -

we have a very different take from allmusic on meeting teachers at audition time. like you, we were unable to visit everywhere twice (mostly because my son was so busy with school work and audition prep) and as we approached the audition dates, it just seemed awful not to have found any teachers at some of the schools. we also thought that they might look askance at such a request, but we tried with the first audition and the teacher agreed to see him. he was very helpful, did not interfere with my son's performance in any notable way and actually encouraged him a lot ("you're just the kind of student we're looking for and you should do very well tomorrow"). That had been a "safety" school so we were less concerned about appearances, etc. He was accepted within about 10 days. But, emboldened by that positive experience, my son arranged to see teachers at 3 other schools. They all seemed to be on more or less the same page about using the lesson more as a preaudition coaching rather than a full-blown technical lesson. They all encouraged my son a lot, gave him someone he knew liked him in the jury the next day. If I had it to do again, I think I would have had him consider arranging pre-audition lessons at every school. It really softened the experience for him. Perhaps your son's teacher has had a different experience, but my son enjoyed the lessons and got into all the schools where he did this.

jazzzmomm

The jazz auditions my son did at top programs were all quite loose, attended by the teacher on his instrument (because mostly there was just one or two at most), generally positive experiences. If you are well-rehearsed on your pieces and comfortable with improvising and jamming with other musicians, it seems that the jazz audition is low-stress. Maybe it's my son's personality, but it just seems that, for jazz students, the emphasis is not so much on technique as I think it is for the classical student, and you kind of get in there and have a musical conversation with the faculty and undergrads who are there to back you up.

violadad

beeflat, welcome. Great name.

beeflat

Thank you, jazzzmomm, Allmusic, and the rest on this thread. Just found this cc site recently. Your comments have gone a long way in relieving stress and assuring us we will emerge from this process next spring with a happy kid at the "right fit" school.