MomofWildChild

Mannes is another conservatory (NY) in a big city. Has a strong voice program.

lorelei2702

Of course I say all of these things about how difficult it all is, and yet both of my children have chose (and been facilitated, should we say enabled?) to do the music journey anyway. In my daughter's case, I knew enough about what success required and what it was to know how she was doing, but I would confess that I have always been both her biggest fan and hardest critic. I used to recognize in her stage persona all the various manifestations of angst I had witnessed in her teenaged self. I had a better sense of her strength as an actress when I ceased to recognize the origins of her drama. In my son's case, my perception of what his talent might be is more nebulous, though I have come to rely on a less musical instinct when judging string players, one which originated when I was judging singers during their educational journeys, but now I find it no less accurate in predicting the success of his string colleagues: given basic technical prowess, when they play, do I "care"? Is this what they mean by "star power"? I have no idea, but so far it has been a harbinger of various audition results amongst his friends. I heard Arnold Steinhardt (of Guarnieri Quartet fame) refer to it as the "goosebump" quality. For me it is less a matter of the thrill, and more a matter of appreciation of the soul and spirit which shines through the music.

So what does this have to do with picking a school. Nothing, I confess. Sorry for the digression.

Baltimore: obviously Peabody and Johns Hopkins come to mind; Boston: NEC and TUfts/Harvard are major golden opportunities; Philadelphia: not that far from Princeton and Westminster Choir College (do not let the "choir" in the name dissuade you); New York: Columbia does a joint program with Juilliard, but still there is the obstacle of being admitted to Juilliard; there are very few teachers in NYC who are not available for private hire, albeit for goodly expense, outside of conservatory setting, potentially excellent "in" if it becomes obvious singer is conservatory material; Manhattan School of Music has some relationship with Columbia for voice students, as I understand it from this forum. Another school at which to look is Carnegie-Mellon, it has an excellent reputation.

There are many options, obviously. If your daughter is self-limiting to major cities in NE, she may miss the chance at a really good fit with a teacher. Hopefully she will take the time to explore.

T990

I was going to mention Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh. Don't know about soprano voice instruction specifically, but Josh Groban was a student there when he got "discovered". The music school is small and extremely competitive to get in. Having a lesson ahead of time might be key.

lorelei2702

I cannot say that Josh Groban is any kind of reference for classical singer preparation, but it may be fine anyway. I do know that there is a strong musical theater program there, and that may be his educational background. I do not know.

calicomom

D may be "self limiting to NE cities" but mom and dad are interested in making sure she understands all her options. Clearly it is vital to visit and SEE the difference between a pure conservatory vs conservatory/college (Oberlin) vs conservatory/university, and the various settings: city, suburb, rural.
I know what you mean about the goosebumps factor. Renee Fleming gave me goosebumps!
Hadn't thought of Westminster Choir College. Will look into it..

reedplay

I know absolutely nothing (or close to it) about voice, but I'm certainly enjoying this thread! Lorelei, you are incredibly knowledgeable. Great posts!

I was surprised to see a certain artist's name pop up. I paused for a moment ... but it then caused me to think a bit. Because I'm a performing musician I sometimes hear a high school or college student, who is attending a performance, say, "I want to be a professional musician. I love "X's" work ... he/she is fabulous." Who they mention is very telling. It may cause me to recommend different schools than I might have otherwise.

I don't mean to sound like a snob (although I'm sure I am a snob!). But it is true that it does cause me to think differently. I'm wondering if music schools react in a similar way ... if, for instance, a student writes an essay saying he/she loves a certain artist. (In jazz Kenny G immediately comes to mind; I know nothing about jazz, but all the jazz musicians I know roll their eyes if they hear that name.)

So do students (and parents) ever think about this sort of thing when writing essays. Would a student say "I aspire to sing like "X"? Is that too risky?

I rarely recommend an oboe student pursue a career in oboe playing because the competition is so outrageous. I would guess it's even worse in voice! I know the opera company I work for ... and I know about those struggling singers. What a rough life.

Sorry. Unnecessary ramble here. Just thinking in print. This is far too long and I promise to go back to reading mode with this thread.

mini

"I have a vague idea of how grueling, poorly paid and unlikely an actual performing career is for anyone, and that's why I hope d will choose a place that is not only a conservatory but also a college where she can broaden her mind, maybe do a double major, or even (gasp!) change her major later on...doesn't look likely that she'll lose interest in music, but most people I know changed direction in college at least once."

Have you considered Smith? The voice program is headed by Jane Bryden, who has sung with Peter Sellars, and has produced their share of professional singers. My d. is a music composition major there, and between Smith and the 5 colleges, there are awesome performance opportunities, and a new 5-college opera consortium, for which my d. is the research assistant. And Northampton is a great town, rather like Cambridge circa 1970. My d. is also planning to study music in Florence through the College's own study abroad program.

reedplay

Just to clarify (and here I said I'd not post again. Sorry!: While I did say that the life of a musician (and, in particular, a singer) is rough, I have to also tell you all that I absolutely love my career and my life. I can't imagine doing anything else. It brings great joy. (But I would hope anyone's job would bring him or her great joy. How sad if it is otherwise.)

Oh ... and between being a performer and a teacher I was also able to be home for my kids much of the time, which was great.

I do like to recommend that most students go first to a university so they can study things other than music ... but it sounds as if some of your kids are so set on music they are exactly the right candidates for conservatories!

asillad

Any opinions on NYU/Steinhardt for classical voice programs?

gkoukla

You all sound so experienced! I am so glad I stumbled across this site. Last year MY D was wait listed at Juilliard as a soprano. She made it into everywhere else she applied (Eastman, Indiana, Michigan, Carnegie Mellon, Shenandoah). She is happy at MI now with a VP and MT major, so far.

My question is do you think she be given another audition and admitted to Juilliard as a transfer student for fall of 2006? Does anyone know if they like transfer students? D will be going to the Daniel Ferro Vocal Program this summer in Italy, and she is thrilled to have been accepted. Does anyone know much about that program?

Thanks to you all in advance.

lorelei2702

Is your daughter happy with her current teacher? Is she getting to perform? They do accept transfers (our tour guide this year was undergraduate vocal performance transfer.) Does the waitlist status from last year count as one of her two denials for Juilliard, or is there some sort of "without jeopardy" status for waitlisted auditionees? If it does, she should wait until graduate school. Otherwise, if she is not allowed to transfer, she could not apply again, even for graduate school. Michigan is a great school, wonderful faculty, lots of professional contacts, should not leave unless there are negatives for her.

gkoukla

lorelei2702: Juilliard said that her wait list status does not count as one of her two denials; that she was considered "favorable". D feels that perhaps she should strike while the iron is hot, so to speak, and try again at the end of her sophomore year. She is happy with her voice teacher at UMICH, with no "real" negatives, so far. She only performs in studio classes, though. It's just that Juilliard is SUCH a wonderful "positive" as you say, and if D can, shouildn't she try again, before graduate school? Are you familiar with the Daniel Ferro Vocal Program? Thanks for your help.

lorelei2702

gkoukla: Great that Juilliard considers it a "favorable". Would she be attending Daniel Ferro program with it in mind to study with him? He has been a fine teacher and mentor in the past for singers. One could not imagine that he would put his name on anything less than professional. It is important to have an excellent teacher for vocal technique, but it is also important that your teacher is a good cheerleader and advocate, with professional contacts. Perhaps during the summer program, he might guide her as to what the best timing would be. He would know if she has improved her chances for admission, how her voice has developed and matured. He would be an excellent resource.

Michigan probably has voice division recital hours. She should ask her teacher about other performance opportunities. Does she do any competitions, like NATS? If she is determined, she can make some things happen for herself.

Good luck.

gkoukla

Thanks, lorelei. I think NATS is on the agenda, and I know she asks for performance opportunities a lot. Your advice is excellent. Thanks, again.

thumper1

I haven't seen the name Daniel Ferro in YEARS. I took voice lessons with him in the summers years ago. He was simply WONDERFUL. What a great opportunity for your daughter. I still have my voice books with his notes in them. He is top notch.