santafedad

The esteemed EmsDad had a post in the Texas State thread about that being, “One of, if not THE, cheapest MT BFA program(s) in the country.”
In light of all the financial-aid talk and parents trying to navigate the costs of BoCo, NYU, CMU, I thought this might be fun – some schools can still deliver this degree for a lot less.
Texas State may in fact be the least expensive for those not living in Texas as they are generous in giving OOS students resident tuition.
I am still bewildered why states who claim to care about growth and economic development make it nearly impossible for talented students to relocate and live in a place where they want to pursue an education – often bringing family members for visits who stay in hotels, buy gas, eat in restaurants, purchase tons of clothes and dorm stuff. Nevertheless, in some states it is nearly impossible to get resident tuition – so I am not suggesting this is an option. But using the collegeresults.org site – I actually did find a few other programs where in-state tuition, fees and housing are less than Texas State.

These are the costs with resident tuition for an on-campus student for an entire academic year (not just one semester). Here are the Fab Five:
- University of Wisconsin – Stevens Point, $14,030
- Wichita State - $14,475
- University of South Dakota - $15,747
- University of Central Oklahoma - $16,491
- Texas State - $17,196

futurereno

Sam Houston State - $14,262

EmsDad

Great idea for a thread. My impression is that most (and maybe all) of the OOS MT students at Texas State get to pay in-state rates, which makes it real bargain. Extremely competitive for admission.

mommafrog

Okay...in-state tuition/fees and housing at Ball State are $16308 this year...but in-state status is for those with established residences in Indiana or a very few select Ohio counties.

Although I agree that pricetag or name alone does not define quality of program, and that all students, regardless of major, need a financial safety on their list (a school you can afford that you would be happy to attend), I do not believe that, with the selectivity of these programs, you can set your sights on programs based only on costs.

OneMTDad

East Carolina - $13,537
Get accepted into Honors college and get tuition waiver and only pay room and board - $8,220

jeffandann

So the real question is whether the smaller cost for such a program is an effective investment, in terms of the training and job opportunities that are associated with a program. What if one of the lower cost programs never places graduates into the field? Then the lower cost didn't really buy you much. On the other hand, there was a post earlier this week in another thread about the Boston Conservatory, and that the actual out of pocket costs after scholarships, etc could be as high as 50k a year. I can't see that being a sound investment for any undergraduate degree.

My daughter is going to visit a school in our home state that, with her grades and test scores, could cost us practically nothing out of pocket. But we will be looking to see what her opportunites would be after obtaining her degree, if she is lucky enough to land a spot in the program (which two of the seniors from her school did this year, so we're hopeful).

EmsDad

Western Carolina $13,977
Florida State $17,451

EmsDad

OOS costs at these schools (R&B was calculated using the differential between Total In-State Cost and In-State Tuition from collegeresults.com):

School / Tuition / R&B / Total
University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point / $13,769 / $7,573 / $21,603
University of Central Oklahoma / $10,652 / $6,429 / $22,920
Western Carolina / $13,977 / $9,841 / $23,818
Wichita State / $14,475 / $9,417 / $23,892
Texas State / $12,520 / $6,744 / $23,940
East Carolina / $15,636 / $11,230 / $24,767
Sam Houston State / $14,340 / $8,430 / $24,892
University of South Dakota / $15,747 / $9,919 /$25,666
Florida State / $18,432 / $14,445 / $31,896

(Note: the number for in-state cost at Sam Houston is $16,432, not $14,262 as listed in Post #2)

EmsDad

@jeffandann - you are no doubt aware that the correlation between the cost of a school and its results are highly debatable (there are many articles and publications on this topic - for some real fun read the ones on higher education as Veblen goods).

Certainly some schools graduate more working actors on Broadway than others, and certainly some schools offer better traiing than others. But one of the fundamental questions is, "does the school make the student or do the students make the school?" (i.e, "if the same students went to State U as Boco would they be any LESS successful later in life?" or, conversely, "if the same students went to Boco as State U would they be MORE successful in life?"). If being successful as an actor takes guts, determination, and perseverance, then wouldn't a highly-motivated student derive a lot of value from almost any program?

Looking at it from an incremental value perspective, i.e., would the same highly-motivated student derive $30,000 per year of incremental value from Boco as State U is a really interesting question to ponder.

soozievt

EmsDad, I do agree that one reason grads from some top programs may be successful in this field is that the students who attend those programs in the first place went through a highly selective process to be admitted and so it may be apples to oranges to compare those graduates to those at a school that is much less selective in the first place.

Cost is surely a consideration for most families. Remember, however, that the ticket price is not the final price at a school. Thus a school that may cost $45,000 but awards a $20,000 scholarship brings the price down to $25,000. So, students may wish to apply to more expensive schools and see what aid and scholarships they may receive. My daughter went to a very expensive college, though received a substantial scholarship. Families who are really needing to be careful about the costs, are often families who may qualify for aid too.

Every family also must weigh the costs based on their own finances but also their own value system. We did not have our children pick colleges by cost at all. We are a middle class family and my kids qualified for need based aid in fact. We let them pick the best fit schools. My older kid could have had a free ride to our state flagship (free ride to all valedictorians in the state) but that school did not fit any of her selection criteria. I realize in some families, the students take out loans and so that is a factor and a kid should not accrue lots of debt. In our family, we, as parents, are assuming all the costs and debts, as this is the gift we feel as parents, needs to be provided to our children. We can't afford it out of pocket but have assumed the costs and debts ourselves, including for graduate school. Our kids know they must support themselves when not in school (I realize some parents continue to support young adult children after college, but we do not).


PS, I am not saying that other families should take on our value system when it comes to choosing colleges and putting cost aside. Some may think we are nuts. Yes, D1 could have had a free ride at UVM but went to Brown. The first time she went to grad school, she got into a number of top programs in her field, many with substantial scholarships and we allowed her to pick MIT, the only school that offered no scholarship, turning down schools like Columbia and Cornell, for example. However, in her second year at MIT, she was awarded a half tuition scholarship and so things change! Now, she is in a second round of grad school started this year and we let her pick Berkeley due to best fit, yet she was awarded four times the amt. of scholarship to Stanford. We are believers in best fit, particularly as we feel our kids worked hard to earn that and have taken full advantage of their college educations. But even this has changed because now D was selected as a TA at Berkeley and has had a reduction in tuition. And for next year, she may have an even bigger reduction if she gets a fellowship or obtains in-state status (which grad students can do, not undergrads) and so in the end, it is not costing as much as originally thought, just like at MIT. In fact, when she selected Brown for undergrad, the price went down by a lot starting in her second year when D2 entered NYU and so need based aid improves when you have two kids in college at the same time. So, in all these instances, the schools did not only not cost the price tag, but the costs went down over the years. Just one story.

EmsDad

I think that it pays to do some bargain-hunting. Large scholarship awards are always possible, but not always likely.

jeffandann

Ah yes, EmsDad, I am well aware of the debate over quality of program vs. cost. Thankfully my daughter is I believe very motivated, but I would still argue that for any degree, walking out of undergraduate school $200 k in debt is kind of crazy.

EmsDad

@jeffandann - totally agree with you. Taking on a large amount of debt in an industry with employment data like that published by Actors Equity doesn't seem to be a very good idea to me:

http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/abo...nnual_2009.pdf

No doubt there is some field of work with worse individual employment statistics, but I haven't found it.

4inoregon

Central Washington University (auditioned BFA MT):
In state T+R/B= $16,050.
Member of Western Undergraduate Exchange for OOS students from the west.

EmsDad

Northern Colorado:

$18,475 In State
$14,499 + $9,048 = $27,523 OOS