halflokum

@flossy>>> "I think students who choose Northwestern or UCI and probably Point Park decide that the education and training available at these institutions is worthwhile even if they don't ultimately get the BFA or MT certificate. "

Likewise I am sure there are BA students at Emerson that reached the same conclusion. Emerson doesn't hide their cut system for the BFA nor do they throw you out of the school if you don't get to continue. Students can still decide to attend there knowing this is a possiblity because they feel it is worth it.

Lulu63

We took Emerson off my D's list last year for that reason exactly. Plenty of other good programs that she could apply to that didn't have this issue. Sophomore evals can be stressful enough without knowing in advance that they do cut. Just what was best for my D.

takeitallin

I think that as long as a student goes into the program knowing fully what the cut system is, and is willing to risk it, then that's OK. My problem with Emerson, is that they cut purely on the basis of numbers, rather than work ethic, attitude, talent, teachability, etc. If they end up with 20 equally talented, hard-working students after the natural attrition, then they will cut 4 for no reason other than they allow only 16 in the junior class. I don't think anyone can predict whether or not they will be on that cut list due to the randomness of it, and knowing how hard it it to be accepted to any BFA MT program, and how difficult it would be to transfer with out starting over, I can't imagine taking the risk.

The difference with NW or UCI is that students enter knowing full well they will eventually have to go thru an audition process to progress into MT; quite a different situation.

halflokum

I (me myself I) don’t see the situations as different because there is a risk in either scenario of not being able to study MT if that is your goal. In either case if you fail, you could still end up with a theatre BA at a school you liked well enough to pick it. But I absolutely get the idea of being comfortable with one side of the risk (still needing to audition for MT) vs. the other (avoiding getting cut.) It’s a personal choice.

I wonder how the odds compare. Is it easier to stay in a cut program than it is to get into a MT program after-the-fact?

There are many hurdles yet to climb that you can’t be certain of when you choose/seek a school. At UCLA which is a fantastic academic school with truly stellar and well-connected theatre faculty, you can be admitted as a freshman on the MT track of the theatre BA and as long as you do the work successfully, you will not be cut. (They will certainly cut you if you slack off but it isn’t a deliberate numbers game.) But there is no guarantee that you will ever be cast in a show and they are very up front about that. Is that a risk you’re willing to take to go to a top notch school with excellent training and faculty? Some people are. My daughter was not but she certainly might have been had she come out of the other side of the application process and felt it was her best option.

Why close doors now on any school that otherwise you seem to like just because of things that may or may not happen down the road? A lot can change from when you start the application process until you get to the finish line and you don't yet know what it is you don't know or what it is you'll truly care about in the end. First, you‘ve got to get in.

Flossy

I believe at both of the schools mentioned you can continue to study MT and reaudition. Being cut without cause would be tragic. But yeah, why not audition and then choose between the choices you have in hand? There will be upsides and downsides to most.

NotMamaRose

I think the cut system is all to the advantage of the school and no advantage that I can see, at all, for the student. There are plenty of really good MT programs that don't cut and that, if a student works hard, attends class, and is basically a good citizen of the school, will take that student all the way through four years and then let the market decide if that student has what it takes to be a professional. I don't get why anyone would apply for/audition for a school that cuts. Why do it, when there are so many fabulous places that don't? And by the way, I know a really talented, hard working kid (not my own ... a friend of my kid's) who was earning A's in her studio and other classes at a cut program BFA and got cut, so don't tell me it doesn't happen. It does.

monkey13

That was my suspicion, NotMamaRose. I'm sure it does happen, and I suspect it will happen this year at Emerson. Thanks to all for your thoughts and advice.

BroadwayBound164

I auditioned for Emerson and immediately after talking to the head of the department at auditions took it off the list. I'm fine with evaluations so that the faculty can assess your progress and make sure you're on the right path, but to cut purely based on a number is a stupid thing to do.

halflokum

This is my last word on the Emerson subject and I don’t exactly know why I care. Not a school I attended, not a school my daughter will be attending. I have absolutely no horse in this race.

Just over a year ago when I started reading CC for real, I had the impression that certain schools (several that I had never heard of) represented the real top MT experience and that other schools like Emerson were not worthy of a look because nobody in the forum ever talked about them. Fast forward to a year later my impressions after visiting a number of schools and going through auditions my opinions changed quite a bit.

There are many fine MT programs that are never talked about at all on CC. In my now not as rookie opinion, Emerson is one of them. It doesn’t look like anyone with a current student at Emerson nor anyone from the administration at Emerson going to step up to defend their program in CC. It’s not my problem but I do feel an obligation because of all of the excellent info and advice that I read here on CC over the last year to say as a parting shot to everyone that is now starting the process: decide for yourself before dismissing schools like Emerson… warts and all. If you are cut program adverse, cross Emerson off the list because potentially (although not definitely) there is one. If it isn’t a deal breaker, Emerson is worth a look. OK, I’m out.

monkey13

@halflokum, I am not saying Emerson is not a good school. On the contrary, I hear a lot of good things about it, and my D and I are going to their senior showcase to check them out. I just wanted a reality check on whether it is worth it to apply given the apparent randomness of their cut program. The school is gorgeous, facilities amazing (their black box theater was ridiculously beautiful), location perfect, training supposedly great, dorm rooms modern and nice, and they even say the food is good....I guess it becomes, as you say, a personal choice as to whether you can live with the cut program hanging over your head. It's a shame they do it like that...I wish they didn't.

I also agree with you that there is a ton of great info on CC, and my feelings about some schools have also changed drastically over the past year. In fact, I started this thread b/c I was expecting to hate Emerson, but adored the facilities/location, etc., so I was confused and reaching out to others for their thoughts. I don't think you and I are that far apart on this...it is definitely a personal choice, and frankly, I don't know if it is worth the risk. The head of another MT program said this about the cut programs (and I am paraphrasing): "Cut programs set up unhealthy competition among the class. If you have to spend your years in college constantly looking to the side to see where you stand next to your classmates, how can you move forward?" Yes, the MT world is harsh, kids will face rejection all the time. But one theory is that college is a time to learn, not only your craft, but how to work as a team/class. There will be plenty of time for cutthroat competition later. And I think every MT student knows that. Why start it during college?

beenthereMTdad

BRAVO monkey 13. I think this says it all.

"Cut programs set up unhealthy competition among the class. If you have to spend your years in college constantly looking to the side to see where you stand next to your classmates, how can you move forward?" Yes, the MT world is harsh, kids will face rejection all the time. But one theory is that college is a time to learn, not only your craft, but how to work as a team/class. There will be plenty of time for cutthroat competition later. And I think every MT student knows that. Why start it during college?

BvilleLady

This is such an interesting thread. We never considered a college with a cut policy and, in fact, never even knew they existed back in the old days of my son's application and audition process (Fall 2009). Though I think Halflokum makes some valid points about dealing with the risk factors in the selection of certain schools, this particular college does seem to take a random approach to cuts. Which is hard to believe, actually. Would be great to hear from an Emerson rep on the subject. Think about how many truly talented kids will pass on their school simply because of the cut policy. They should seriously rethink their policy.

Still, I'm happy to congratulate and welcome Halflokum's daughter into the Tisch New Studio family! My son will be an MT junior next year. Feel free to pm if you would like them to connect!

beenthereMTdad

I think when considering each school's policy, we should be careful to not group all schools together. For instance, I think there is a big difference between a school that cuts to a predetermined number, versus a school that cuts from a talent perspective versus a school that has a promotional system. I think each could and should be debated on it's own merits.

MrsDrz

monkey 13: The sole reason my D did not apply to Emerson was for this reason. She is OK with juries that fairly assess progress, actually excited about this prospect, but is not OK with keeping numbers down for the sake of numbers, especially after each student was selected via audition to begin with.

For the same reason she cut out a well-regarded CA program which has even more drastic cuts at the end of sophomore year. Then there is that "other" school that has the worst cuts of all and breeds a class that is pitted against each other. We know a girl who just voluntarily left that program junior year when down to 3 MT girls left! Not good. Competition within performance is bad enough and let's face it, talent isn't always the deciding factor in castability.

thtre12

First: Emerson Bfa acting was my D's first (actually only) choice.
She was accepted Bfa early and, YES, she is going.

Second:We did not get the impression that you got at all about the "cut."
Students told us the only ones who got cut (and I believe for acting last year they said it was 1) didn't show up for class or just weren't committed.
We live in Chicago and have been very familiar with the depaul cuts (in the past - they just replaced it with a brutal audition process) and Emerson seems nothing like this. When you have a small dept and some kids are just not committing it hurts the whole program, so I get that. I also like that there are very good options for those few for whom the Bfa is not the best choice. Remember how certain you were about what you were doing with the rest of your life at 18? Having the option to branch out into so many other arts and liberal arts options or to double major after two years is really not such a bad thing. If you're in a straight conservatory and you change your mind, chances are you're changing schools. I'd take the Emerson "cut" before getting stuck in one studio track at NYU with no way of moving.
I guess it's really ok with me that some kids just don't apply or go to Emerson because they are afraid of this (theatre is actually all about fear!) because it's fewer to compete with my D....I think if you have a realistic view of yourself, you can accept that some things you think are perfect for you just might not be.