soozievt

Ericsmom, very happy to hear your son got pleasing results on his standardized tests. That is one hurdle he can be done with. Nice going...and congrats on the writing score. That bodes well for college essay writing.

Catsmom, it is great that there was a reception locally for you for BOCO. I bet the more you heard the more exciting the reality is becoming. Again, I am thrilled for your D to have had this happy outcome at the end of this audition season. Too bad my D won't be with her but my D really liked BOCO on the second visit/audition day. We know a couple of kids going. While I am not complaining, believe me, but it is hard to kinda not go to a program after being accepted when all the build up was there going into it and we really came to like all the programs a lot.
Susan

teriwtt

Hi Peg, thanks for sharing your D's experience with me. And yes, I knew that SCA was founded by Millikin graduates. My D's show choir director is a Millikin graduate, as is her voice teacher, and her husband (I've read a whole paper on the history of show choir). That's what we get for living in Illinois; Millikin grads tend to gravitate toward the Chicago area.

One of the reasons we've agreed to let her go to SCA at Millikin this summer is because it's close, it's relatively inexpensive, and I know how spending a week on a college campus can be for a high schooler - a blast. Two of her friends are going. I know it's not the most challenging program to register for, but at just 16, I wasn't ready to spend the money for a program on the par of Northwestern, and I didn't want to send her off so far away. Next summer will be her big opportunity to really hone skills if she chooses.

I think her biggest challenge will be to decide if she wants to do MT bad enough to compromise on some of the perks of having more college choices. If she's one year behind in getting a career off the ground in MT, but has a more well-rounded year in high school, I won't complain. I have to get out of the mentality that she has to do it now or never. Sure, going that route with peers of the same graduation class is a good experience, but if she doesn't push things fast enough, then decides she does want to do MT, then she'll have to take a less traditional route to getting into MT programs.

Ericsmom - I look forward to hearing from you and your experience.

Thanks all.

Ericsmom

teriwtt - I just wrote you the best post, and the stupid computer lost it when I tried to submit it! When I'm writing for too long, sometimes it says I'm not logged in, and won't let me post. Sometimes I can go "back" and retrieve it, but this time I lost it.

My thoughts on your second post above after the posts from me, mtmommy, and soozievt - All of these people are great resources - isn't it great how all our kids focus on different things! Too bad they can't all spend the time needed on everything!

Don't feel overwhelmed when we tell you to go back and read from the beginning. Back then the forum was just a long running dialogue without all these various topics to choose from. Go to page 7 of this MT forum and to Colleges for MT Part 30 - click into the beginning of that to get a link back into the old archives (I suppose back to Part 1).

We are like you in that Eric has focused for a long time on acting and singing, along with early piano, and he frequently performs in professional theatre in our city, which he would never give up. As a result, his dance training is lacking. He started dancing in 9th grade and has added more classes each year (currently finishing junior year). He is signed up for 5 classes a week (2 ballet, jazz, tap, hip hop) and he attends whenever there is not a theatre show conflict. Thank goodness his dance studio is supportive of this theatre effort! He also sings in 2 choirs, so conflicts are the name of the game at our house. I tell you this to say it is very hard to get in all the training they need and still allow them to participate in all the performance opportunities. For us, we have sacrificed dance and realize it. Below I'm going to tell you about college programs that don't require dance at the audition or place less emphasis on dance.

I believe we should all listen to Theatermom's advice about dance and other training. I use her as an example because her daughter goes to Michigan. We are in awe of anyone who gets into that program. They seem to be looking for people who are very good at all areas of MT and grades as well. If I remember right, Theatermom's daughter has much dance training and a fabulous voice and had less theatre performance experience going into auditions than some of our kids. The training served her well in getting into Michigan! One more plug for your visiting Michigan - my MT son is also not interested in big college sports (but his dad and big brother make up for this!) - but Eric was very impressed with the MT program at Michigan. A large university offers many things for different people. The biggest draw-back to Michigan besides being hard to get in is its cost for out-of-state students, and they only give a few scholarships from what we understand.

If you can fit in dance on Sat. that would be great. Probably ballet is best followed by jazz for MT. Also, look for local summer intensive ballet programs. This summer Eric will do a 2 week ballet summer intensive for the second year. We take what we can fit in!

I'm about to give you thoughts on a few programs we visited and the different perspectives. Before I do, you should know that I'm not giving advice on great programs we have not visited. We have not visited Otterbein (much to our regret with poor trip planning, because we adore doctorjohn on the forum), Millikin, Illinois Wesleyan, any schools northeast of NY State (such as in CT or Boston), any in Florida, Arizona, or California.

Schools have different approaches to MT, as you will learn from reading and visiting. I highly recommend visiting to determine how she "feels" on campus - attend classes, see campus shows, do tours, meet MT faculty. We visited Chicago originally right before sophomore year thinking that Northwestern would be our dream school. I told you above why it is no longer on our list even though it is very impressive. Also, you mentioned her friend going to DePaul. I wouldn't recommend it for MT as you would have to go off campus to get voice lessons and dance classes. Otherwise, we were very impressed with DePaul.

You'll want to read the FAQs on BA vs. BFA - many bright students thrive on and choose BA programs because they allow the student to do many other things along with theatre. Also, read the FAQ on schools strong in dance - you'll probably notice Syracuse among these (I believe your older daughter goes there). These are some schools where a less advanced dancer may have trouble getting in. Some schools focus more on acting - Webster and Ithaca come to mind. Some are focused the most on music (OCU and Baldwin-Wallace have a BM instead of a BFA for MT).

You mentioned your daughter wanting a bigger city - some of the schools I mentioned to you are in or near big cities, including Oklahoma City, St. Louis, and Cleveland - all of which have many art opportunities. Same can be said for my alma mater TCU in Ft. Worth, TX.

Lastly, the schools for you to consider if dance cannot be worked into her schedule would be: NYU Tisch Cap21 (where the advanced dance audition is optional), Ithaca (no dance audition required, but you can work in some dance steps with the songs if you choose), Elon (where no dance audition is required, but you can substitute a dance number instead of one of the songs if you desire), Webster (where they will talk to you about dance training and maybe have you show steps, but no dance is required), and OCU (dance audition is for placement only in their many levels of dance classes). At all of these schools, the students dance once they are in the MT program.

Good luck to you as you begin your journey!

musicalthtrmom

I've just posted D's decision on the appropriate thread but thought I would inform all of you who I have come to lean on during this process of D's choice.

The alternatives were U of Michigan for Voice Performance or OCU for MT. While she started out this process intent on MT, in the end a substantial scholarship offer (based on talent and academics) from U of M made her take a really hard look at Michigan again in the last couple of weeks. She made a list of her priorities, weighted them, and scored the two schools. While she didn't let the outcome totally determine her decision, the process did help her to examine her priorities and where she could best achieve her goals. She's always felt Ann Arbor would be a great place to call home...and so it will be.

Turning down OCU was very difficult for D. After attending their summer camp, she felt like she was a part of their program already. Many friendships were formed with campers who will be MT students next year. Dr. Herendeen had become a mentor. She had been given their top academic scholarship. So the decision was very difficult.

We are all THRILLED with the outcome. Still pinching ourselves at the wonderful scholarship she has been offered at Michigan! Never in a million years did I think this would be the tale we would tell. I'm EVER so grateful for all of your help over the past couple of years. I have learned so much from you all. (My friends tell me I could teach a course! But I couldn't do it without you all at my side.) I'll be around for those of you coming behind....to join Theatermom and Gkoukla in informing you of our daughters' antics in Ann Arbor!

gkoukla

musicalthtrmom: Congratulations and welcome!!! Your D will love Ann Arbor and the voice program. Let's keep in touch.

Ericsmom

musicalthtrmom - We've been anxiously awaiting your decision at our house, as we probably don't keep it a secret that your 2 choices are very high on our wish list. We can only wish for such wonderful choices for next year! Congratulations on the wonderful scholarship at Michigan! We have heard how hard they are to obtain. You have been an excellent mentor for us on the summer program options, and we are anxiously waiting to hear confirmation on our application for the OCU summer program.

lynnm

Catsmom - So glad the BOCO get together went well! She must be SO excited (and you, too, of course).

mtmommy

If students shouldn't audition with songs that are from shows which have been on Broadway in the past ten years, isn't it difficult to find songs before 1960 since so many of the old shows have been recently revived or movie musicals have been made into stage shows? Another thing my D said is that she keeps finding great old songs which are either not from musicals or are from musicals but the songs aren't really a part of the story itself (difficult to act then).

soozievt

MtMommy, HI!!~
A couple things regarding your questions...

First, I have not heard that students should not audition with songs which have been on Bdway in the past TEN years. Rather, the usual rule of thumb I have heard is more like not to audition with the most current hits on Bdway or one from the past couple of years. Certainly songs from within the past ten years are all right. My D used songs that are from "newer" shows but not the latest hits. I think overriding what year the song is from is kinda not to do the most overused songs though the thing is to make it your own.

As far as the Pre 1960 songs....several schools had that requirement and of course my daughter did that but only used that song for schools that required one to do so. That was definitely a bit trickier to choose. You kinda have to peruse all these songs/musicals from before 1960. To tell ya the truth, the pre 1960 song my D ended up using was written by a well known musical theater composer but this particular song he wrote for a movie, not a musical, though my D had sung this song ironically at age nine in a musical revue (a published one) of this composer's music so technically it was in a show but a revue of his music but was written for a movie. I think, however, since it was by a musical theater composer, it was not a problem. But let me tell ya, my D sort of drove me nuts all fall picking out her audition songs (she used a total of four) and changed her mind umpteen times until the auditions got under way. She changed her ballad after the first audition too. There is stuff out there for pre 1960 but ya just gotta dig and dig. One thing I tend to enjoy doing when I sit during my D's voice lessons (which are fifty miles from our house so I have to stay there and hang out in the voice teacher's home office), is that I peruse his library of books. He has this one book of every musical, composer, song, etc. and sometimes I would read through that to see if there were any songs we did not think of as being from those dates. Unfortunately it knocks out many songs even written in the sixties. But it is definitely possible to find several good choices. Just remember you don't have to use that song for the schools that don't require that and it just means preparing more than two songs for the entire lot of auditions. The same thing happens with the monologues and various criteria from school to school. My D had to prepare four monologues in all to meet each school's criteria. It is good that she did because at one of her last auditions, while she only had to prepare two monologues, they asked her to do two more and so luckily she had four she knew, only because she had learned that many to meet the various schools' criteria. So, your daughter might end up having a FEW songs and a FEW monologues to prepare for the audition season. Have fun with it. It sorta drove me nuts that she was indecisive and kept changing her mind on the songs. She kept wanting to knock out songs that might be too common even if they were ones that were good for her. That started to cut out so many cause she'd say they were "common", like someone else would do it. I was grateful for the admissions person at UM who said in my D's appointment last September, that they care more that the song is the one that shows them and that they make their own MORE than that it is unique. THANK you Laura Strozeski. Whew. She had to hear it from someone else. My D's songs were definitely not common but certainly not the most unique thing you have ever heard, lol. Maybe her pre 1960 one was cause I doubt anyone did it and some auditioners did remark about it but the other two main ones she used were not common but not unheard of by any means.

Susan

mtmommy

Susan--Thanks so much for your great advice. I am printing it out for my D. I think it will help her a lot!!

freelance

I found this source-- The Rodgers and Hammerstein Library when I needed an interesting pre-1960's song. It is the online licensing catalog for hundreds of Broadway shows by Rodgers & Hammerstein, Rodgers & Hart and many more. It is also the sight to go to for theatrical licensing (for these particular shows). Just click on "Titles" and you can search for musicals, and hear little snippets of the songs. Better yet, if you click on "Advanced Search" you can search a song by vocal range!!

http://www.rnhtheatricals.com/

There are other musical licensing sites on the web. Stephen Schwartz's is here, but every composer has one.
http://www.stephenschwartz.com/music2.htm


Another obvious choice is THE PUBLIC LIBRARY!! Most libraries have some kind of Broadway Soundtrack collection. If not, they can borrow from another branch.

If you are lucky enough to live near NYC, the main Library branch has an extensive collection.
http://www.nypl.org/research/lpa/circ/sound.html
Lincoln Center Library is fabulous. Colony Music store in NYC is the best place to find sheet music. The clerks there really know their way around vocal scores.
http://www.colonymusic.com/


Voice teachers, music teachers, artistic directors of local theatre companies, college drama departments and anyone involved with MT are good sources of songs.

One word of advice I have is to have more songs prepared than you think you really need. Prepare an up-tempo, ballad, bluesy, legit, pre & post 1960 in order to build up your repertoire. You might be asked to sing extra songs at an audition, or even do scales! (That has happened to many this year). I've also witnessed seeing an auditionee cringe while hearing "HER" unique song while standing outside the audition room. It's good to have an extra song in your back pocket.

freelance

I will also post this info on that thread.

theatermom

Ericsmom,

Thanks so much for the kind words about my D. It's kind of a joke amongst her classmates that she had done a sum total of three full length musicals and one opera, all in high school, before starting UM. However, she has been dancing on stage since she was 6 and has performed in choirs and a capella groups as well. But compared to many of the kids in her class, she is a real performance novice. (When I read about the extensive performance experience of Soozievt's D, I wonder when anyone in that family ever sleeps!!! )

Your post led me to want to dispel some common misconceptions I often read on CC about getting into UM and about the UM college experience for those families just starting their MT program search.

First of all, not everyone admitted to UM is equally strong in all three primary areas of MT - singing acting and dance. Most people seem to be concerned about their kids not having lots of dance. And while I'd be among the first to suggest that as much dance training as you can get is advisable if you want to increase your eventual "employability, it is by no means a "deal breaker." While everybody in the program is expected to work hard on their dance skills - ballet in year 1, ballet, styles and tap in year 2 ( I forget the curricular requirements for years 3 & 4) - I would guess that maybe only 7or 8 of the 24 freshman would describe themselves as "dancers."

If you look at the UM application, you will find that there are several short answer questions and essays and applicants must bring another essay with them to the audition. The application is read not only by the University Admissions office to ascertain if the candidate can be accepted based on academic credentials. The Music School/MT Department faculty read the entire application and recommendations as well. We were told at MT orientation last year that the answers to the questions posed are a very important part of the decision process. They are looking at the "whole" person - character is very important to them. They know they are committing to work with these kids for four years - no "cut" policy - and they want to work with kids who really want to do the work, those for whom the work is what matters at this point in time. That is the culture of this program. So while all of the kids are talented, they are all in different stages of their development and working TOWARDS being strong across the board. They won't all graduate as true triple threats, but they will have been challenged to become the best they can be in all three disciplines. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't be intimidated by the notion that UM is one of the so-called "elite" MT programs. If the program appeals to you, go for it.

Secondly, yes, UM is a very large institution, but the MT program is housed in the School of Music which comprises approx 1000 students. The MT dept has under 100. The kids become very close to each other. But the one non-MT course a semester that most students take lets you begin to meet other kids on campus and there are lots of opportunities via campus organizations, clubs, the Greek system, sports, etc to become part of the larger community that is UM. And don't let the large physical plant scare you away - as a single student, you will use a very small part of the campus each year and once there for more than the short time you spend for an audition or visit, it won't seem nearly so large. My D says that it actually feels nice and small to her now. I've posted this before, but I think it bears repeating for the new crop (afterall how many of you oldtimers think YOU would have gone back to read everything we've posted over the last few years - Really!): We believe that UM offers the best of both worlds, big and small.

Check it out!

newmtmom

So I'm not sure where is the best place to post this, but I wanted to share some of my daughter's impressions regarding Drake and American for those of you who will be auditioning next year.
Drake (in Des Moines) has an MT BFA program, currently with no audition required. D visited last week, and thought people very nice, friendly, etc. She came away thinking that it is a solid program except that it didn't have enough dance. She also came away with the distinct impression that they are committed to building their program and that in another year it's going to be much stronger. Based on her conversations, she also had the impression that in a year or two they may add an audition requirement to their admission process. I think there are about 6 formal productions over the year

American has an MT BA program that requires an audition. D visited there last week as well. I think I posted stuff about the program before. It is unique as far as I can tell in being a BA degree and still a performance based MT program. Unlike BFA programs, the whole four years of theatre, dance and voice classes are not spelled out. Some students approach it like a BFA--they take the minimum number of general ed requirements and then everything else is theatre. Others choose to have double majors or minors, etc. There are only 3 main stage productions over the year, but there is a musical theatre troupe, and it being DC, there are many other venues where students perform. Since my D has decided to attend AU, I'm sure I'll be able to share more info about the program next year.

amy oconnell

Thanks again everyone for helpful posts on MT schools. I just thought I would post a note about CCM. Over the weekend, my sister and I had the opportunity to audition for a MT 5 day workshop over the summer at CCM. The audition went very well and both my sister and I got accepted..but I guess I just wanted to say was that the people that we dealt with were as nice as they could possibly be and the two students that taught the dance audition were awesome as well. I know that this wasn't the college audition setting, but the lady that is the new head of musical theatre at CCM was amazingly nice and was very knowledgable. Just thought I would post that

thanks-amy