REFLECTION "I wish I would have known "this" when I started the process!" - Page 6

tripletreat · 09-19-2005, 04:58 PM

Yeah. There is still hope if you don’t get in anywhere. It isn’t always a case of talent. Some kids are simply not prepared to go into a professional training program after their high school experience. One of the best stories on this group is Shauna’s. She auditioned for a bunch of schools and didn’t get in anywhere two years ago, but after getting some training at a non audition school she got in OCU last spring. Another thing that makes her story so great is that she handled her rejections with CLASS and DIGNITY and EVERYBODY on here was super supportive to her because of it.

5pants · 09-19-2005, 05:42 PM

Realistically speaking, I think it is difficult for any college student (whether rejected or accepted by MT programs) to post on CC at this time. After all, I would imagine most of them have gone on with their lives and are busy pursuing their passion one way or another rather than dwell on the "what if"....I would hope they would have for the sake of their sanity.

Musical Theatre CC is a place to share, learn, and garner support for a very tough row to hoe. We are lucky to have some big hearted and caring posters who hang around and guide all the newbies, lend an occasional shoulder to cry on, or applaude an achievement. Let's not let negativity be the weed to take over the garden here. I suggest if you have a gripe with someone's wording that you take it outside.

I must now go do something highly productive....go eat!!

SUE aka 5pants

rossji · 09-19-2005, 07:12 PM

I used to think, up until last night, that for someone who didn't get into any MT program (assuming they didn't just apply to the "Ivies", and also applied to a few safeties) it was MOST LIKELY a question of talent (or lack thereof). I know there are exceptions to everything, but my gut feeling was that it was really due to a lack of talent, training, or both. I admit it, and I'm ashamed. I just found out, last night, that this AMAZING singer, actress, and dancer from my area auditioned for 8 MT programs and DID NOT GET INTO A SINGLE ONE. She auditioned for some "Ivies" and some safeties. She had incredible grades and a 1550 on her SATs. I've seen her in 3 community theater productions. The girl is a true triple threat. I am absolutely dumbfounded as to why she didn't get in anywhere. She's now going to college part time and working part time (not even a non-audition MT school). My point is, YOU NEVER KNOW WHY THINGS HAPPEN SOMETIMES!! I know some people who, in my opinion, can't sing in tune at ALL (my dog's howling sounds better) and got into some decent MT programs. My d went to a Broadway show last night and said the lead was, well, very bad. I'm sure we've all seen professional shows where we didn't think the actors deserved the roles they got. In addition, we've all seen local nonprofessional productions where the talent is amazing. (BTW - if anyone is near Thomaston, CT, go see CHess - the lead guy played Seymour in a local production of Little Shop, and his voice is ASTOUNDING!) Sorry for rambling, but I had to share this tidbit. I'm still in shock.

razorback1 · 09-19-2005, 08:38 PM

Shauna is a perfect example of what I was trying to say. thank goodness she didn't assume that she was not talented because she received rejections. She's now on talent scholarship at a top music program. And I'd like to say, that my posts are not really personal. We're happy with our current situation and we do now have info explaining our audition experience. And, my d has had an extremely successful year so far in her theatre field. but, I know many kids on here who weren't successful in their pursuit of a school and I think it has to be a personal and individual decision whether they should continue in their career choice. Of course some of these kids may eventually have to face the fact that they may not have what it takes. But, having some unsuccessful college auditions is not conclusive evidence of that.

cluelessmc2 · 09-19-2005, 09:37 PM

When I wrote the piece about things we didn’t consider in our quest for an MT school I didn’t expect it to take such a turn. I simply wanted to say there are some key aspects to deciding on a school that we didn’t know about at the time and since we were lucky enough to stumble on to them I wanted to share.
I do feel it is important to say however that I too believe life works out for the best IF you give it your best shot. In all this I am reminded of the Field of Dreams movie when instead of being a great ball player Moonlight Graham chose to be a doctor. Some of these kids who do not become Tony Award winning musical theatre stars will be our teachers, our policemen and our doctors or simply a Tony Award winning actor! Some who got into all the "best" schools will crash and burn and be a life lesson for a niece or nephew who will someday do great things for the world. I was one of the people who did not really want my S in MT. He had as an alternative a non audition school that also had a major in his second love that has nothing to do with performing. He only auditioned at top schools. To us if he didn’t get in then maybe it was best he keep it a hobby; I know there are very few Shaunas in this world. He was blessed with only getting one rejection and let me tell you that was enough. When people ask me what he plans to do with his OMT BM degree. (I hear this tone in their voice.) I simply say, “His dream is to perform his goal is to be educated.” And then I ask them what their undergraduate degree is in?

freelance · 09-20-2005, 06:17 AM

Let's try to turn this thread back to it's original topic:
"I wish I would have known "this" when I started the process!"
No one can predict the future for our kids or any of us. We need to do what we do best here--share important information with prospective MT parents and their children.

Thanks!

lynnm · 09-20-2005, 08:19 AM

I've been thinking since yesterday about what to write or post here. My daughter did not get into one of the "big" programs. She auditioned at many, many schools, and decided on Millikin University for this year. Why am I one of those people who haven't written much about my D's audition disappointments? I think there are a few reasons. First off, they are my daughter's disappointments, not mine. I feel like it's not really for me to say. Not that I don't FEEL her disappointments, but I mean that I was not the one auditioning....I wasn't in that room, standing in front of the people, scared out of my wits. Secondly, I'm afraid if I state my feelings, some may feel it's sour grapes on my part. Thirdly, maybe I feel intimidated by all the knowledge of the parents/kids on this board, or intimidated by the talent we hear about. I'm not sure, I think it's a combination of the three. But I'll go out on a limb here to let you know what we seem to have learned from this whole experience.

My daughter has been interested in singing for many, many years. Earlier on she took dance classes and some musical comedy classes. Her first college plans were to major in voice. It wasn't until Junior year in H.S., though, that she decided, for certain, that MT is where she wanted to be. She had the lead in our school production and I believe it was a defining moment for her (and me). I know that she is good (like every mother knows, I guess).

Her problem seemed to be auditioning, itself. She's never had too much experience in that area. She went to Carnegie Mellon pre-college (thankfully) and learned about the process. If she hadn't gone there, she would have been absolutely clueless. She worked with her vocal teacher for the singing part and with my brother (a writer of off-Broadway shows) for the acting. It seemed, though, that she would really freeze at all these auditions. No matter how much she practiced and willed it to happen, she just didn't feel that she was able to nail them. We were told that the more you do, the better you get. That just didn't seem to work for her.

Needless to say, she's working very hard at Millikin this year. They audition constantly. No matter what show is being put on, main stage, student-directed, these kids must audition. She's been doing about 3 or so a week! She was disappointed the first time when she didn't get called back for the main stage production, and to top it off, her roommate got a small part. (Thank God she adores her roommate!) But I have already seen such a big difference in just this first month of schooling. She's starting to realize that every show is not for her. Every role is not for her, ex. her roommate is completely opposite from her in voice and appearance, maybe that's why she was picked. She is less nervous with each audition and she's learning to shrug off disappointment. On top of that, she's in a student-directed show and was picked for the Physical Graffitti team/group which is a hip-hop dance group. She added Jazz to her required Ballet for this semester, too. She's hoping that all this extra dance will not only get her in better shape physically, but mentally, as well.

She's planning on auditioning again this coming year for a few schools. The biggest reason for her wanting to switch is not because Millikin isn't a "big name school", but simply because it's too far. Too far from NY, from Mom and from the boyfriend.

I hope that what the up and coming kids and parents get out of this is that there is not just one way to achieve dreams. Sometimes you have to stop on a few planets along the way before you get to the big shining Broadway star....

fishbowlfreshman · 09-20-2005, 09:14 AM

Okay. Back to the original topic. Don’t depend on how things look on paper when you choose your school! VISIT, but don’t do it on an accepted students weekend when everybody is on their best behavior and they put on a bunch of dog and pony shows that have nothing to do with what campus life is really like. Go at the end of the week or a weekend when you can see the real social life and see real classes in session. Everything at my school looks wonderful for me on paper. It is a very reputable department, I have a huge scholarship, the faculty is awesome and I got cast in a major role my first semester, but I’m miserable with the still-in-high-school-like life-in-a-fishbowl existance at this place. If you have a gut instinct about a college, follow it! I researched my school to death and something told me it would be too small, but I let the scholarship offer drown out that voice. I have only been here a month, but I already feel like I should have gone somewhere bigger and plan to transfer if things don’t change which I doubt they will.

soozievt · 09-20-2005, 09:05 PM

Thank you for all sharing your stories....the positive and the less than positive experiences. I've been away and am just catching up on all that I missed ;-). I ought to post at some point how my D's start to her first year is going (all is good).

Lynn, you brought up a good point with your D that also may pertain to some other kids and that is that she did not have much experience with auditioning itself. I obviously do not know her talents and what not but sometimes you can be quite talented but not audition well and it does take practice in how to actually audition. I am glad she is getting lots of audition experience at Millikin because while I know it is disappointing if not cast, she can use each audition experience to hone those skills and the confidence and perhaps obtain some critiques of that too.

Clueless, I enjoyed reading about your son's time so far. It does seem like he is very happy and that this was a good place for him to be.

I think it does help to read about both the positive and less than positive outcomes though I doubt many of the latter people tend to post which I do understand. I think ChrisM is a brave to post and share her D's end of things and what they've learned and will do differently this coming year.

I think Theatermom's post is also very apt because this field is so tough. I don't think you can analyze a rejection at a top school and say the kid is not talented enough because top schools have so few slots and even they must reject some excellent candidates (for instance, the numerous cases I know of kids who got into X but not Y and then others who got into Y but not X that reveals this phenomena with the "ivies" of the MT college world). However, I agree that one must take stock when there are no acceptances and evaluate what to do next...whether it is to get more training or feedback and try again or do another major but do theater as an extracurricular passion or try to enter the field another way or just what. I don't think her post was directed at anyone on here's situation personally because none of us has met the kids posted about on here (except a few I guess) and so I think it was a thought about the field, not about any specific kids. It is a sensitive subject and I fully appreciate that. These after all, are our kids who we all believe in. I know her post had to do with support as well of kids who did not get in and what to do next. Some may reevaluate, some may pursue it a different way. My D has a friend who wanted to go to Tisch but did not get in but her parents let her get an apt. in NYC (she is from Idaho) and she is going to Stella Adler studio (not as a Tisch student). So, only you know your own kids. Getting outside feedback helps. It is very hard to make it in this field. Even those going to top programs may not make it. There are also those on Bdway who never went to college or a MT program. And then there are some who also try out of BFA programs who have not yet acquired the skills to be considered. There are many variations. There are also many levels of pursuing this interest. Broadway or a BFA program need not be the goal. As another poster wrote, you can pursue a love of theater while having another career (ie., do community theater) or go to college and be actively involved in the theater clubs on campus. There is an element of pursuing your dreams/passions but also there is the factor of outside evaluation of your talent by trusted professionals that also may help. College admissions involves an element of evaluation. Then there is the theater world itself. It is gonna be full of evaluation and rejection and that's the way that is.

I've enjoyed each story here and I hope this year's college students and/or their parents can share about how it is going for them. Maybe I can do that soon about my kid's first few weeks.

Susan

chrism · 09-21-2005, 05:11 AM

Freelance,
Maybe I see it differently than most, but the recent discussion fits perfectly under the heading "what I wish I had known". = I wish I had heard from students or their parents whose path did not fit the standard "I auditioned at 8 schools and got into 6 of them". I really appreciate hearing from those whose stories fit that category. I think it provides a more realistic view of the process parents and students will be facing this year.

freelance · 09-21-2005, 06:37 AM

Chrism,

Yes, that discussion is useful. What I was referring to is the critical tone that this thread was starting to take. This MT process can be harsh, agonizing and nerve-wracking. Let's all try to be as informative and supportive as we can be. We are all here for each other; all our stories need to be heard.

chrism · 09-21-2005, 07:11 AM

Absolutely.

catsmom · 09-21-2005, 08:24 PM

I've been gone for awhile and I'm trying to catch up on these boards. What I would like to add is that I think that something Lynnm said popped out, "Her problem seemed to be auditioning itself".

I think the most valuable information that my D received when she was young was to audition for as many shows as she possibly could. Even if it was a waste of time. The more she auditioned, the more comfortable she got. I believe that this one little piece of information helped her more than all the singing lessons did. Audition for everything you possibly can within reason. I understand that many of you don't have that many opportunities to audition - then perform or audition for choirs, etc. I think we would have had different results had it not been for her actually enjoying auditioning and going in with confidence (not to say that there were not early rejections). She did not always feel this way. It was quite nerve-wracking for her when she was younger. Not only did she get "practice" at auditioning (as you would practice a piano piece or a vocal piece) but she also built up her toleration for rejection and was able to not take each rejection personally, but that she just wasn't right for the part.

Part 2 coming - Jet Blue plane is landing at lax with the front landing gear sideways.

Phew.

Okay, where was I. Oh yeah. Then again, while I can't speak for theatermom, I know that her daughter only recently found her "singing chops" after being quite a succesful dancer (I had the privilege of seeing an incredibly beautiful pic of her on point). <P.S. Theatermom - how close is Phili to Boston.> Maybe it was that her D was very comfortable performing in front of people.

Back to the original post..."I wish I had known 'this' when I started the process." Audition, audition, audition......

denvermom · 09-21-2005, 09:11 PM

I'm one of the posters who has found it very hard to continue posting, once my daughter's rejection letters started rolling in. She was rejected at all the MT programs, got accepted at a few non-audition programs which she didn't want. As we were trying to deal with this pain, she went to a new voice teacher, an opera singer who believes that her 4 years of college were wasted!, who told her that she should go directly to NYC to audition for shows as the window for MT women was so small- 18 to about 24 years. As you can imagine, my d "glommed" on to this affirmation of her talents, and we were ready to strangle this voice teacher! We were unable to convince our d that this teacher was speaking from her own experience and may not have been objective.
Long story short, our d is now in NY, living with a cousin on the upper West Side, taking acting classes at Stella Adler, daily dance classes at Steps on Broadway, studying voice with a wonderful man, starting to work with a monologue coach, and has decided to apply for Early Decision to Tisch- last year she auditioned at Steinhardt because her voice is her strength. It has been 9 days since we left her- it feels like a month- hard to think of an 18year old navigating around the city- but she's doing great so far!
She did finally acknowledge that she didn't do as well during her auditions as she could have- didn't work hard enough as she was very focused on the elite choir she was in and the director wouldn't allow kids to miss time for college auditions which made her scheduling and choices difficult. She felt that she somehow couldn't bring the same performance intensity to the audition as she does when she's on stage- too bad this realization didn't come earlier in the audition process so she could have tried to address the problem more directly- but better late than never! She is also more open to applying to some "safties" now. If she doesn't get into Tisch, she will apply at Syracuse, Ithaca, CCM (again), either Emerson or OCU, and then SUNY Fredonia and Buffalo- does anyone know about the SUNY programs in MT- both offer BFA in MT??
It has been hard to continue posting here when all I was reading about was everyone's successes- don't know what to do about that, though, as we're so happy sharing good news and love reading about successes. I do agree that these rejections are not necessarily indicators of talent, this field is filled with rejections, and that so far, my d is responding in a very healthy way by re-evaluating her strengths and weaknesses and charging full-steam ahead (at least for the past 9 days!)

musicalthtrmom · 09-22-2005, 06:12 AM

Denvermom...
I can't help you with your questions about the SUNY schools...but I do want to thank you for posting. Your daughter's persistence is admirable and I hope her time preparing in NYCity will help her land the MT spot that is just right for her. I don't think I'm alone in believing your posting helps ALL of us learn more about the process and the PEOPLE behind the acceptances and rejections. Hope to hear more from you in the future!