Carrier - Page 4

USNA Dad&Grad · 04-30-2008, 09:50 AM

There was a similar show on about 15 years ago - when dinosaurs roamed the earth - and it was about my ship, USS Carl Vinson. Not quite as "no holds barred" as this one, but pretty entertaining, especially since I knew most of the officers they spotlighted. I had left the Navy just before they filmed it.

During one part, I saw one of the OSSN's from my shop wiping down bulkheads (walls) with a sponge. I had taken him to Captain's Mast for "missing ship's movement" (AWOL - we call it UA). Captain's Mast is kind of like going to see the judge for a misdemeanor, and he was on restriction, and that was one of his punishments - cleaning duty FOREVER.

Carriers are unbelievable places to live and work. I cannot imagine what it's like during wartime ops with a raised tempo.

USNA69 · 04-30-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAMO4

Do many (most) pilots get grounded at one time or another? Will his career survive?

At the beginning of last night’s episode, this particular pilot was bemoaning the fact that he continued to do stupid things in the aircraft. He mentioned getting back aboard and then asking himself why he had done what he did. Probably a little slow on the uptake. Since he was probably in a section with the lead pilot directing the flight and the tanker being where it was, there had to be extenuating circumstances beyond his control so this was probably a culmination of things, with not being able to get into the basket more of a factor than the landing at Baghdad.

Yes, Field Naval Aviator Evaluation Boards (FNAEBS) –pronounced fee nabs- are relatively serious. COs routinely ground pilots, especially at sea. If the infraction is serious or more likely part of a trend, he will sometimes recommend a FNAEB prior to letting the pilot fly again. This is what happened last night. I doubt if this guy will see the cockpit again during this cruise.

From the OPNAV inst:

Quote:

Field Naval Aviator Evaluation Boards (FNAEBs) – Definition. Per reference (e), FNAEBs are administrative boards convened to evaluate the performance, potential, and motivation for continued service of any Naval Aviator ordered by competent authority to appear before such a board. These boards shall review and evaluate the overall performance and the specific element of performance or behavior that is the cause of the evaluee’s appearance before the board. These boards are fact-finding, evaluative bodies which shall make recommendations as specified in the “Recommendations” paragraphs of this article, through the chain of command to the type commander (TYCOM).
These boards are not bound by formal rules of evidence and may consider and include in the record any type of evidence deemed credible, authentic, and relevant to the case. These boards are not judicial nor disciplinary bodies and shall make no recommendation for disciplinary action as a result of their evaluations. Any disciplinary action accruing from the same circumstances or events that are the reason for convening an FNAEB shall be kept completely separate from such boards.

7. Grounds for Convening a FNAEB. A FNAEB shall be convened for all Class A and B flight mishaps except in those cases where the aircrew’s performance is not in question. Normally, for circumstances not involving a flight mishap, the decision to convene a FNAEB is left to the discretion of the respondent’s CO or immediate superior in command (ISIC). Higher authority may direct a FNAEB when considered necessary. A FNAEB should be convened when the following conditions exist:

a. The aviator has demonstrated faulty judgment in flight situations. This may be evidenced by violations of flight discipline or repeated minor incidents of any kind in which aeronautical judgment is a factor.

b. The aviator has demonstrated a lack of general or specific flight skill. This may be evidenced by failure to satisfactorily complete all or any part of a prescribed training syllabus or failure to achieve required qualifications. In the case of pilots this may also be evidenced by mishaps or near mishaps involving pilot skills.

c. The aviator has demonstrated certain habits, traits of character, emotional tendencies, or lack of mental aptitude or motivation that make it questionable to continue the member in assigned flying duties.

d. The aviator has failed to comply with minimum annual flying requirements for reasons within the member’s control.

e. The above conditions are provided as a guide and are not in any way restrictive. Command discretion must be exercised when an aviator is deemed professionally unfit for flying for any reason not specified above.

Man Overboards happen. More often on a carrier than a smaller ship. Very seldom does one fall overboard without someone seeing it. The few with which I have been involved that the exact time could not be ascertained, all turned out to be suicide. Overall, on a carrier, usually one or two per cruise. There are always the lovelorn who cannot bear leaving their honey and jump overboard when the ship leaves the pier. An conversely, those who cannot wait to see them upon return and decide to swim the last couple of miles

One thing this series has not really emphasized is just how dangerous a flight deck is, especially at night. Not being able to see what is going on and attempting to work on aircraft, exhausts from aircraft being taxied, can prove deadly. That is why they wear the flotation vests and chem lights. Fortunately the helo can get airborne in 5-10 minutes 24/7 and they are well trained so most man overboards have a happy ending. And lastly, there are a lot of false alarms like on episode one where the XO lost it when someone threw the chem light overboard. There are stern lookouts on duty who are watching for anything unusual in the wake. It is amazing how much a basketball from the hangar bay game looks like a head bobbing in the water.Do many (most) pilots get grounded at one time or another?
Will his career survive?

hersheybear04 · 04-30-2008, 11:23 AM

I was also curious about the fishing boat... I was talking with a friend when the CO was explaining the situation so all I knew is that the Nimitz tried to save the boat and took the fishermen on board. I didn't know the circumstances under which the boat started sinking. When they asked to be reimburse I assumed the Navy must have had something to do with it, but I guess they didn't? Nimitz sent a crew out to help them and they ask to get money for the boat?

JustAMomOf4 · 04-30-2008, 11:35 AM

I don't think the vessel was very sea worthy.

Quote:

Nimitz sent a crew out to help them and they ask to get money for the boat?

yep! Welcome to the world view of America - the richest country in the world.

USNA2012Mom · 04-30-2008, 11:39 AM

Then they asked to be taken to America. "America is Great!"

usna09mom · 04-30-2008, 02:43 PM

Any Navy people on this forum who fell/almost fell overboard during a cruise?

For years I've been suggesting to my mid that I buy her an small EPIRB that she could wear on a ship/boat. She just shakes her head. Two years ago a professional sailor in the Volvo round the world race fell overboard during a race segment and drowned.

USNA Dad&Grad · 04-30-2008, 03:30 PM

I got washed from the bow to the cockpit of a Luders 44 as a Midshipman in 1982 on an ocean race to Bermuda from Newport, RI. The only thing that saved me was being clipped on to the safety lines we had rigged. We b****ed about clipping on during watches - but not after that. I doubt they could have picked me up in the weather we were sailing in. It was bad.

Personal EPIRB is a great idea for any sailor - as is wearing a flotation vest at all times. It's easy to get whacked in the head and lose consciousness on a sailboat - especially in a race.

We had radios in our flight vests that would transmit on the guard frequency for rescue, but i'm not sure that extends to flight deck crews. Anybody know?

navy2010 · 04-30-2008, 03:47 PM

i was suprised to learn about the g'bge thrown overboard.... food (thinking a trail of sharks following the wake), the other flotsam, and sewage.... do they at least treat that to some extent?

and what was to stop the sharks from attaching when a few jumped ship to go swimming??? surely they must be shark bait!

USNA Dad&Grad · 04-30-2008, 03:57 PM

LOL - there's no landfill on the ship!

When we had swim call, we had guys with rifles and shotguns to protect us from the sharks. We used to joke about "Who's going to protect us from the guys with the rifles and shotguns?" They scared me more...

DSL1990 · 04-30-2008, 10:25 PM

Navy's perspective on Carrier series:
perspectives.jpg

they have an policy video on each episode! LOL!

PlebeMom2012 · 05-01-2008, 01:35 PM

I have been obsessively enjoying this series. What is most interesting to me are the class divisions that exist. I'm not talking about rank, although rank is an interconnected issue. It seems that people rise to the level of their abilities, and they are most comfortable with those of similar potential. It's like a perfect little microcosm of the human race. There are always those who through hard work and determination can pull themselves up to a higher level, which is always dramatic and I find myself rooting for this type of person. That's why I found the story of the E-6 who had the encounter with the E-3 and lost his career so devastating. I wanted him to succeed and felt awful that he made such a careless mistake and must pay for it for years to come. I can't imagine how disappointed he must be with himself.

This show has done an outstanding job of highlighting the humanity of all the people involved -- their desire to serve their country, their determination, their vulnerabilities, their human weaknesses. It has been good for my son to see this show and begin to understand his role and how it may develop. I think it reflects well on the Navy for several reasons, not the least of which is that the commander on several occasions has allowed people to keep their dignity -- even the racist yahoo who was separated. He showed great wisdom in knowing that that person's attitude will bring it's own punishment.

We have so many people in this country that we can truly be proud of, people who consistently try to do the right thing and who push through heat and exhaustion to diligently do their jobs, knowing that they are part of a complex mechanism that allows us to live in freedom. And even if they disagree with the tactics or direction of our government, their commitment keeps them focused. I'm so proud that my son will be joining their ranks.

Simayan · 05-01-2008, 07:11 PM

I seem to be having some conflicting messages about the show (which I am enjoying very much as well). As USNA/Senior Military Colleges always seem to say, the strictness is present at their institutions because it will be much more stringent when one enters the fleet.

However, I couldn't help but notice that many of the people on board in this show, including some officers, were much more...slovenly than those that I have encountered in the military college environment. For example, the salutes and military courtesies seem more off-hand, quick, and sloppy; rooms and uniforms hardly ever looked like they would even come close to passing the requirements set at USNA for cleanliness.

It may just be the moments that are shown, but it seems like many of the threats made by USNA about fleet life seem to be a stretch.

However, I am NOT saying that I disagree at all with strict policies. But I was just a little disappointed with what I saw and how the Navy seems to operate on board this carrier.

Oh, and a big thumbs down for having colored turtlenecks denote rank (at least for chiefs). Yuck.

USNA2012Mom · 05-01-2008, 07:14 PM

Funny that you mention the turtlenecks. My son commented on them too. I never gave them a thought.

DSL1990 · 05-01-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

I seem to be having some conflicting messages about the show (which I am enjoying very much as well). As USNA/Senior Military Colleges always seem to say, the strictness is present at their institutions because it will be much more stringent when one enters the fleet.

i've heard it's more because SMC and Academies are trying to make strong leaders out of raw clay, then because anyone expects that being a plebe, rat, rook, or knob has any relevance in the fleet/field.

USNA69 · 05-01-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simayan

Oh, and a big thumbs down for having colored turtlenecks denote rank (at least for chiefs). Yuck.

Nothing at all to do with either style or rank. If is a job identification system. It allows anyone at a glance to see if the proper people are where they need to be and doing what is required. If bombs were to be loaded, the Air Boss could look down from the tower and see a lot of 'red shirts'. If a plane needed to be moved, 'blue shirts'; fueled, grapes (purple shirts). Every single person on the flight deck is required to wear a specific colored jersey and flotation vest depending on their job and with their job stenciled in large letters on both the front and back. With that said, in the wardroom the 'inner circle' shooter was wearing a green jersey. He wasn't on the flight deck but that would not have been allowed in my day. The command master chief seems to have one of each color. He should wear a white one.

U.S. Navy - The Carriers - Rainbow Wardrobe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simayan

However, I couldn't help but notice that many of the people on board in this show, including some officers, were much more...slovenly than those that I have encountered in the military college environment.

These people are working 18 hours a day in the most hostile environment on earth. 130d days. Sandstorms. And aircraft are filthy, oil, jet exhaust, hydraulic fluid. This is the working Navy, not some college campus.