Shiloh

Not really. The people with whom you disagree want the best for waging war regardless of color.

I don't think anyone has associated a "lack of morality, attitude, or lack of community service" to the "C and "D" students with SATS in the 800-900 range.

flyboy47

why can't USNA just accept the best of their applicants...based on merit alone, not on race or gender?! that makes the most sense to me...

higgins

He recently wrote an article about Deep Springs College in the Antioch Review which was not the typical glowing story I've seen in the past. He makes good points in that article but is overly critical about some aspects of the school and student body.

I did not read the entire thread but it seems to me that the endless discussion about favoritism/ affirmative action for athletes and minorities is flogging a dead horse. My son did get into an "elite" Ivy and says that the top 20% of his high school class would have no problem there competing academically. There are just so many qualified students and only so many slots. Football and Title 9 end up mandating that the schools do recruit a lot of athletes.

Bill0510

Flyboy . . . since it makes so much sense to you to admit based on "merit" alone, perhaps you could explain to us how you would determine who the best applicant is.

THEN, since you have this figured out, you could forward your comments on to the NA and they might adopt your process.

The floor is yours . . . .

flyboy47

look, please don't mistake my concern for a claim to know everything about how USNA should conduct their admissions process. all i'm claiming to know is how they SHOULDN'T conduct their admissions process, or at least an aspect of it.

giving favor to one individual over another based on race is racism. doing the same with regards to sex is sexism.

USNA can avoid this by simply admitting people based on merit, which is according to webster: a) reward or punishment due b) the qualities or actions that constitute the basis of one's deserts c) a praiseworthy quality : virtue d) : character or conduct deserving reward, honor, or esteem

Bill0510

What leads you to believe the Academy isn't considering each applicant's "praiseworthy qualities" or "character or conduct deserving reward, honor, or esteem."
Seems to me that is EXACTLY what the Acadamy does when it assigns whole-person scores to each applicant.
Thus, based on your defintion, it sounds as if the Academy is admitting based on "merit."

Or, are youg suggesting, because this class is the most "diverse" ever admitted, that the Academy is not admitting based on merit?

Krypter

All I know is that, while academics are only 1/3 of the mission at the Naval Academy, it represents a disproportionate amount of time and stress in a Midshipman's schedule. If an individual is accepted into the Naval Academy who does not reach the minimum scores that have been historically set for entrance into the school, then the Naval Academy is doing an injustice to the individual. I see it day in and day out; Midshipmen who ARE capable of succeeding academically struggling with the academic workload and all of the military obligations placed upon them. If a person is accepted who is known to have low test scores, and thereby shows a very high potential to struggle academically, I see, will have less time to focus on leadership development and becoming a polished military officer. How you may ask? Well, academically poor students must focus on improving their grades, and are often forced to take summer school. This eliminates the possibility of having a quality training block during that time where the student must instead be retaking a course.

I understand that the CNO wants for the Naval Academy to be more diverse. However, lowering standards is not the way to do it. That is simply a quick result that will unfortunately, I feel, have very bad consequences for my school and potentially our Nation's military in the future.

flyboy47

what i'm suggesting is irrelevant at this point. believe what you want.

glido

Beat Army!

zackaw

I had one classmate at USNA who, when asked what ethnicity he was, would reply, " I'm American". The fleet need not have officers who look like anything in particular. It needs to have people who are open-minded, and care about their people, regardless.

The only way that white officers leading brown enlisted could be a problem is if the officers (or the enlisted) had a problem with people who looked different or were somewhat different culturally. If that's the case, then the solution is not officers who look like the enlisted, but officers who know what it means to be citizens of this fantastically diverse republic on this rapidly globalizing planet.

Talk about correlation: I'd bet there's no correlation between being a "minority" American and being a flexible, open minded American capable of leading anyone.

Whistle Pig

Great point, nicely put. You've not had any political science yet, perhaps? Hold on. Your clear logic is about to be challenged by the allegedly enlightened.

Clif

Quick opinion, this whole grumblings over minority, someone pointed out the point that Asians are not considered minorities... That is an impossibly frustrating dilemma to be included in statics for diversity but be not only not given a step up but put down a stair.

Also I agree with people looking at the Academic side of things as one of many margins. I think that in some ways it's own blessing and curse. A midshipman that now attends the Academy FAILED out of two prior colleges, but at the Academy has a double major and a 4.0. So we can debate how the Academy works, but we won't ever know what makes that perfect officer. That standard is far more intangible than SAT scores.

Momathome

Clif -

I am curious about a statement in your response - "A midshipman that now attends the Academy FAILED out of two prior colleges, but at the Academy has a double major and a 4.0."

I have a son who applied to USNA but didn't get accepted and is now doing ROTC at a civilian college. He loves the unit activities and made the pistol team but he is frustrated at the party atmosphere and anti military biases....His grades are OK but a Chem class with 400 students is killing him and between that and Calc, I'm afraid that his GPA isn't going to be great for the first semester - he has reapplied to Annapolis but is afraid that they won't even look at him because of less than stellar grades. He really believes that he would succeed at USNA but does he even have a chance at this point?

osdad

I find that very hard to believe, especially now with applications at all time high.

Whistle Pig

Concur. Is there a rat in the woodpile?

If not, this could be a first. Unless he/she came outta the fleet. And/or "failed out" does not mean what most would assume it does.