Is this a shoo-in?

bioeng · 11-01-2009, 01:19 AM

My friend goes to an Honor Military Academy (Prep) since freshman year.
Slated to be the top commander (Cadet Lt. Col.) for the student body in senior year by the school.
Well-loved by the staff.
Shown good leadership. Already second in command (Cadet Sgt. Major.) as a junior.
Won drill team competition.
Promised to be nominated by the school which has three slots allotted by USNA.
Minority: Chinese
Academic performance: Not stellar but average for the school's standards.
GPA: 3.4-3.5
SAT/ACT: Not yet taken. But most likely in the 1500-1700 range.

I know his academic performance and test scores will be on the low side. But can he still sneak in on the merit of the school's guaranteed nomination, leadership and strong desire to serve in the Navy? Possibly through the purported two-tier admission policy?

Should he apply to other ROTC programs as back-up? He seems pretty confident of his chance. Is he mistaken?

bioeng · 11-01-2009, 02:53 AM

Can someone familiar with the USNA help? I seriously need the answer.

bioeng · 11-01-2009, 03:48 AM

I want to clarify SAT/ACT: 1500-1700/2400 or 22-25
This is more realistic due to some learning disability, mild Dyslexia.
Also had history of Asthma when young, haven't had any attack for the past three years
Handled the rigorous military phy. ed. and drills well at this school.

BTW, I just read about this 2 tiers admission standard from the CC. Not sure if it is actually true or not.

My friend seems to think he can rely on the school clout and its nomination, his military leadership record in the school and the teachers' recommendations conveying his determination to be a Naval officer to overcome his academic deficiencies.

What do you think his chance is?

raimius · 11-01-2009, 05:26 PM

Academics are huge percentage of admissions. A 22 ACT would not be competitive.

Also, if his asthma occured after age 13, his chances are probably low. The military does sometimes provide waivers for those with asthma, but it is one of the harder ones to get.

bioeng · 11-01-2009, 07:39 PM

Thanks, Ramius.
Is it true that the interview counts for 60% of the decision? If he does well and convincingly, can he overcome the academic shortage?
Also, his Asthma is only a viral induced type. Happened only once in the last three years during a cold.

Another concern is his dyslexia. He won't be as efficient as others at the academy in the study-time management. What is the chance of him flunking out? Is there an easier academic track for those that have academic difficulties?

Whistle Pig · 11-01-2009, 08:18 PM

No, on the interview issue. The issues with potential for trumping superior academics are identified needs of the Navy -- diversity, athletics, gender in by-gone days. You may get some lip service about interview skills, amazing ECs, etc., but absent of specific, examples illumining such claims, believe them not.

Generally the academies are not well suited nor inclined to appointing or supporting students w/ LDs, nor is the fleet. While your questions are no doubt genuine and well intentioned, they may be better directed to USNA admission officials. Your needs seem to go beyond the capacity of a blog to edify.

bioeng · 11-01-2009, 09:35 PM

Whistle Pig, thank you for your reply. I have been reading CC for a while and your comments are always well informed and greatly appreciated.
Quote:
"Generally the academies are not well suited nor inclined to appointing or supporting students w/ LDs, nor is the fleet."

You raised a very important point here. After your comment, I realize that the LD will not only hinder his admission chances, but worst of all, it poses a great concern to the safety of the fellow squad members in a combat situation. God forbid if he misread a co-ordinate. I can see why the academy and the fleet is not inclined to accept one with Dyslexia. Now I am concerned for both his and the other soldiers' safety and their effectiveness.

In the application process, is he obligated to disclose this? Afterall, to his credit, he has gone through the military school without any special provision for his Dyslexia. But that is possible largely due to the small class size.
On the other hand, the school itself may not disclose it either, because he has not needed any special attention thus far even though they know about it.

raimius · 11-02-2009, 12:28 AM

Military prep schools are not run by the DoD (with the obvious exception of the service academy prep schools)

mombee · 11-02-2009, 08:07 AM

An outstanding interview provides less than 1% of the successful package.

Asians, while an ethnic group, are not necessarily a diversity group targeted by USNA.

An attempt to not disclose medical issues will not prevent them from most definitely being discovered later, with much more severe consequences.

Only 20 total candidates can be admitted annually from ALL ROTC sources. Additionally, the unsuccessful ROTC nominee is not eligible for the national pool. An almost futile endeavor.

USNA is a technical school. ALL midshipmen will take, among other science and engineering courses, Calculus, Differential Equations, Electrical Engineering, Chemistry, and Physics. There is no second tier curriculum. They are all difficult. Study time is limited.

Only your career counselor and perhaps the local BGO will have a feel for the success rate of placement of the school's students into a SA.

Candidates without team sports activities should have even stronger ECs in other areas and also exhibit stellar performance on the CFA

Apply but have a strong backup plan.

bioeng · 11-02-2009, 11:38 AM

Thanks, mombee.

Is Dyslexia considered a medical condition?

I thought the USNA has non-engineering majors like History, Languages and others.

Does USNA actually flunk mids out or they try to graduate everyone who wants to finish and shows good potential for military leadership either by giving them extra help or modifying some requirements like some of the elite schools in the country?

I thought all those that get rejected will be automatically offered the prep program?

mombee · 11-02-2009, 12:15 PM

Yes, DoDMERB investigates learning disabilities (academic skills deficiencies).

Yes, USNA offers majors in History and the languages. Not sure what the exact semester hour requirement is for graduation. However, it is closer to 180 semester hours than the 120 required by some colleges for a degree. ALL USNA majors are BS, not BA. ALL midshipmen will take a core load of 13 math, science, and engineering courses, 12 general core courses, and 17 professional military and PE courses in addition to the requirements for their majors. In addition to this, there are other daily time consuming mandatory professional, military, and athletic activities. The ability to study efficiently is paramount.

Yes, academic assistance is readily available and encouraged. However, I would suggest that it is more adapted to someone who is having difficulty grasping specific concepts rather than someone needing extra time to master the majority of their subjects. There are just not enough hours in the day for this. They do make an attempt to graduate everyone. The preferred screening process is before entry.

Yes, all unsuccessful candidates are considered for prep schools. However, this is a very small percentage, usually someone with a very strong overall package combined with either a weak SAT/strong class standing with difficult course load or, less common, strong SATs and weak course load. It was due to the prep possibility that I suggested he apply. Better to take a look at the prep level than during Plebe year.

bioeng · 11-02-2009, 06:25 PM

Thanks, Mombee. You have been most helpful.
I was checking the DoDMERB site, I could not find Dyslexia listed as a DQ medical condition. Is there anywhere else that I can confirm this?

Also, my friend has not needed any special provision for classes since he entered this military prep. He definite was not doing well academically prior to entering this school. And he could only finish 2/3 of the PSAT. This might lend to the theory that he is getting by now mainly due to the smaller class size and possibly lower competition from his peers. We are concerned about his SAT/ACT, when he has to compete with the "normal" candidates. We are expecting a score in the low 5 for each area in the SAT or a 22 for ACT.
Would a 3.5 GPA/ 22ACT with strong military leadership still be competitive? Or at least put him in consideration for the USNA Prep program?
BTW, he has no team sport except the Drill Team and he started the Softguns Club at the school.

Whistle Pig · 11-02-2009, 08:32 PM

Honestly, much as many'd love to say "yea", it's challenging to see this fine young man as competing for a spot either place. But the bottom line is unless he tries, none will know for sure. Have excellent backup plans as you might proceed down this road. I'm not optimistic about USNA appointment or NAPS/Fdn. Simply does not appear to come close to fitting the profile for either.

And always be reminded, not a soul here knows. All you're getting are opinions for which there is no charge and likely worth exactly the cost.

NorthernCalMother · 11-02-2009, 09:34 PM

No one has commented on this line of your initial message:
<<Promised to be nominated by the school which has three slots allotted by USNA.>>

I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as "three slots allotted by USNA" @ any prep school other than NAPS and Foundation programs (both of which are awarded after a USNA application is submitted).

Be sure his BGO knows if he'd be interested in NAPS or Foundation, but as everyone says, this applicant needs a Plan B.

bioeng · 11-02-2009, 11:18 PM

Thank you all. The news is not as good as I hoped. But I appreciate all of your help. Seems like he has been sold a pile of over-reaching promises. Too bad, he knows he can never be strong enough academically and he is really counting on the military prep's promise to put him into USNA. He has sunk his heart and soul into this school so he can be nominated by the school.
At least now we know he should make some back-up plans. It'll be hard to convince him though. He truly believes in the school.
Another practical problem is whether he should get extra time provision for the SAT/ACT. If he does, he will be DQ by the USNA. If he doesn't, he is not going to get a good score which is needed even for the back-up plans such as civilian colleges.
Would his Dyslexia hinder his chance in becoming an officer through the NROTC?
He really wants to be in the service. Is he doomed to be only eligible to the uncommisioned non-officer route, i.e. the enlisted "grunt" or sailor route?