NotMamaRose

monydad, if you know any kids of college age who do what they are told to do, I would love to meet em! Seriously, you are obviously a really caring father who plays an active role in his daughter's life, and that is fantastic. My guess is that your D will listen to your concerns and what information you have been able to gather and weigh those factors into making her decision. In the end, though, it will probably be her decision to make, unless you do as some parents I know have done, and threaten not to pay tuition, room and board, etc. unless the child walks the path you have laid out.
If your D does decide to attend Tisch and ends up finding herself feeling like a faceless number and without any eligible and interesting men to date, well, then she will recognize her mistake and ask to transfer. It wouldn't be the optimal thing to have happen, but from what I can gather, it sure wouldn't be unusual. I get the impression that no matter how thoroughly a student researches a school, there is really no way to be absolutely certain she will be happy there and thrive there and it will be a good fit until she lives there and experiences it all. Of course, the opposite outcome might also happen, and she will absolutely love Tisch and NYU and NY and be loathe to come home on vacations! As Susan said, different strokes for different folks, in college choice as well as the rest of life.

monydad

re post #14:

1) NYU is nominally only 40% male to start with. There are other schools with strong theater or dance offerings that may have a materially higher "potential date ratio". For example I believe Carnegie Mellon is about 80% male. I think a healthy social and dating life is one legitimate consideration, out of many, in selecting a school. Not the most important thing, but not completely insignificant either.

2) I think many people shy away from same sex schools specifically for this reason. Some do not. But at least there the situation is evident for them to decide about it. We are discussing now what the situation is like specifically at NYU, so that this situation can also be evaluated.

3) Yes my daughter has expressed concern about this generally. She is in theater and dance programs a lot of the time, and would appreciate some social diversity. If ya know what I mean. She has expressed reservations about same sex schools over this issue. She has not investigated this with respect to NYU. But she will get my report.

soozievt

Monydad, a 40/60 ration of males/females would be significant in a small school. As NYU is so large, that still means a thousands of men enrolled in the university. In fact, until I read the ratio you just gave, I wasn't even aware that there were more girls than guys at NYU!

While there may be more guys than girls at CMU, I can tell you that socially, the Drama students at CMU have their own niche and tend to live off campus together. That's what the students told us. Their school is very much a conservatory and the students take very little liberal arts or courses outside their small drama department. By contrast, the Tisch students tend to live more amongst all students at NYU, but also take classes with NON Tisch students. My D likes that she gets to meet those out of her small theater community in the school.

What your D needs to do is not analyze so much on paper some of these things you just mentioned but more talk with current students IN these programs and have her ask them questions that concern her.

As well, if these issues concern YOU, I understand it but it only really matters if these are college criteria that are important to your D. You can research the aspects that she says she cares about, but the criteria for selection ideally would be her preferences. Visiting, as well as talking with those with first hand experiences, is invaluable because some of these issues can be assumptions that may or may not ring true.

I also think you may have misundersstood any comments I made about your own research. I think it is great that you research or do some leg work to find out about the schools on your D's list and then let her know what you found out. I was only saying that the criteria of what matters, is really only important in as far as what she wants in a college. Let's say she says she wants classes in ballet all four years and that different levels be available. A parent can research to find out that information. The criteria is simply one that the student cares about, not the parent. Selecting a school boils down to their own criteria but a parent can do research and talk to their kids about what issues the student cares about. I just would be uncomfortable persuading my child to select certain schools based on my opinions and criteria for selection. But a parent can help the student as she grapples with this complex process.

If your D is looking for social diversity, then a BFA program in a larger school, where the student is living with and taking classes with students outside of theater, might be a good fit....like NYU, UMich, Syracuse, Penn State and many others. This might be a contrast to schools like BOCO. If your D wants to have a breadth in her studies and many options, then a BA school is likely a better fit.

It really boils down to fit. If she can list her personal college criteria and finds schools that approximate that list, that's ideal. But at the same time, it would be good to not erase some schools off the bat until you visit or talk with current students and faculty to raise the issues that are important to your D. Sometimes, assumptions can be made that really do not fit what it would really be like to attend X college. An open mind and exploring via a visit, really can give a student the "gut" feeling of how well the college fits what she was looking for. Then, of course, she has to get in.

monydad

"...not analyze so much on paper some of these things you just mentioned but more talk with current students "

Any current students here? Please weigh in. That's what I was hoping for, actually.

But yeah, she will/needs to do more than just listen to my rantings.

And she will not robotically substitute my own selected observations in place of her own criteria during this process. Hopefully I'll give her some additional useful insights though.

" .the criteria of what matters, is really only important in as far as what she wants in a college. "

Right. But she may not realize what she wants, or what may be material factors, unless someone points them out. Not everything is obvious. Once they are brought to her attention, she can decide if they are material to her when she formulates her criteria.

-- good point about the school size; hadn't though of that. --

alwaysamom

monydad, you are obviously very concerned that your D have lots of information about potential schools, which is good. Being informed in this process is, in some respects, half the battle. However, I think that you are making the social concerns you have, more of an issue than you need to for NYU. It is a huge school, thousands upon thousands of undergrads. Yes, there are many gay boys but trust me, if your D is like any other drama girl I know (and I know hundreds), some of her closest friends will be gay boys. In fact, they probably already are. Having said that, there are literally thousands of straight boys (potential dates) at NYU. Thousands. As Susan said, if your D can't find a boy to date at NYU, then it's likely she will not be able to find one ANYwhere!

While NYU is a large university, the drama department is small, and each studio is smaller, and each class is smaller still, usually about 15. There is a wonderful comeraderie and friendship which develops with these kids. They're like a family and they spend a lot of time together. However, all Tischies take other NYU classes, many double major, and thus they also have friends in every other NYU college. Most, unless they've made a specific roommate request, will be placed in their housing assignments with students who are not in Tisch. Thus, they meet lots and lots of kids who are not drama kids.

The size of the university has never for one instant made my D, who just finished her junior year, feel like a faceless number. Not once. I'm also not sure why you're concerned about the housing issue. Housing is guaranteed for all four years and most kids stay in NYU housing for all four years. Yes, some choose to get their own apartments, usually because they are planning on staying summers in the city, but most do not.

It's true that NYU has a large 'campus' with buildings in various parts of lower Manhattan, the studios, in particular. But all are within walking distance of WSP (some a longer walk than others), which most kids think of as 'campus', and around which most NYU buildings are located. Going to college in Manhattan is NOT for everyone. It takes a mature, independent, and usually outgoing kid to make it work in order to be happy and to do well. It is not the typical college experience with football games and frats but it also has its own distinct advantages, most especially for the kids in Tisch because the opportunities they have, the theatre they can see and participate in, the contacts they'll make, will not be the same anywhere else.

I wish you luck getting through this process. Is your D a senior next year? I would recommend that she visit NYU if she's interested in Tisch, speak to current students, arrange to visit some classes (this can pretty easily be done, especially through contacts here on CC, or if she has friends already there), stay overnight in a dorm, ideally for longer than just one day, if she truly wants to get the total experience of school in the city. Have fun!

monydad

Thanks for your input.

"Let's say she says she wants classes in ballet all four years and that different levels be available. A parent can research to find out that information. "

Actually that's on my assignment list !!!

If anyone wants to know BA programs with 4+ levels, I'll have that by sometime next Fall.

soozievt

Is your daughter looking to study theater, musical theater or dance? Does she want a BFA or a BA? These are all very different schools/programs. There are BA schools with various levels of ballet available (such as Barnard, Smith, Skidmore) but are not musical theater programs. I think a really big question is to figure out which type of degree program she wants and if she is ready to focus on theater or prefers more flexible options. There's more to it than that, of course, but I am not clear by your posts that your D is looking for a BFA in MT or Drama as is even offered at Tisch, or maybe she is looking into the BFA in Dance at Tisch?

If she goes into MT, and ends up being interested in CAP21 at Tisch, the program has FOUR levels of ballet for EACH grade and they have dance placement. Of course, the fact that it is MT, means it doesn't involve pointe though many, like my own D, will have studied pointe before attending. Even many BFA in dance programs are more modern based, and also not focused as much on pointe. I'm not sure if your D is more after dance or MT or theater and if she wants liberal arts or a BFA degree program. But if she wants a liberal arts program with good ballet (I'm guessing this by your post refering to Barnard and now refering to BA programs with 4+ levels of Ballet), there are a few schools that offer this. However, there are options at some schools to take ballet at ballet studios nearby....this is true, I believe at places like Brown and Yale.

I have to say that picking BFA programs was nothing like picking regular colleges. With regular colleges, there are hundreds and hundreds to pick from and you can narrow your focus and take into account location, size, and so many factors. With BFA programs, there are just a finite number to begin with and you have to truly look heavily into the actual curriculum and program as it is commitment to a professional style training. With a liberal arts degree, you want to examine the offerings in an intended major department though the major may change and also the amount of study in the major is not as signficant as it is in a BFA degree program where it comprises a larger majority of the coursework and so really matters. In choosing a BFA, almost more goes into choosing the actual program than the overall characteristics of the college as a whole (not that that doesn't matter but it becomes more secondary and is not the initial criteria as it may be with regular admissions). Also, the selectivity of a BFA program is much more selective than the admit rate for the university at large. Given the difficult odds of admissions with respect to BFA programs, it is harder to be as picky about location, size, dorms, and all that jazz because it may come down to which programs you can get into and then which program is best suited to the student. It just is different than choosing a liberal arts college or university. That's why things like number of straight boys, etc. etc. becomes secondary when choosing a BFA program...there are so many very important selection criteria with these programs and the training, etc. and then a low chance of being admitted. Those kinds of details that you may be examining are easier to make when you are picking from an endless array of colleges and also different degrees of selectivity.

By the way, if your D is going for a BA degree where she can study ballet, several of the schools with such offerings are women's colleges and so already they have way less boys than NYU or less straight men than Tisch!

PS, by the way, if you have not already, you ought to contact TheDad whose D two years ago was looking to go to college for liberal arts where many levels of ballet were also offered (not intending to major in it). He explored this fully. She is finishing up soph year at Smith. You may wish to also contact Calmom and Alumother whose daughters also did high level of ballet. Alumother's D is finishing up freshman year at Princeton and Calmom's D is going to matriculate at Barnard in the fall (though got into and considered NYU Gallatin). My D's friend from dance who is going the BA route, is heading to Skidmore....lots of good dance there. Two girls from my D's dance troupe at home just got into the BFA in dance at Tisch! They've studied ballet extensively, as well as all the other dance disciplines.

Susan

MommaMeg

To Monydad -

My daughter will be attending Tisch this fall for dance. The program accepts 15 girls and 15 guys - as to the sexuality - that doesn't matter to my D. She realizes that a percentage will not be interested in dating girls, but looks forward to making friends - perhaps influenced by "Will and Grace". However, one of the reasons she accepted NYU over the other dance programs she was accepted to, was the apparent and observable closeness of the students. During the audition, she watched the students as closely as the professors watched her. My D felt like she would be very much at home within the program. She also chose NYU because of the city and the opportunities the BFA program will offer. If you daughter is interested in dance, make sure you look into the alumni - who is acutally working as dancers and choreographers. If she wants to teach - then the BA route may be best - to actually dance professionally the BFA or conservatory approach may be better. Of course there are no guarantees - but the connections made within a BFA program may provode that all important contact - at Tisch the dancers take a summer session and are out in three years - One less year to pay for!!! The best advice is - VISIT the schools. One final note - the visit will present a completely different view than the audition - the audition may give a better idea of the best fit. I'm not promoting NYU - I just know that it is right for my D because she felt so at home.

monydad

"Is your daughter looking to study theater, musical theater or dance?"

All of these are still options being considered.
She is informed generally/generically about the various types programs; however she has not made a final decision about this yet. In some cases, it may depend on where she gets in, unfortunately. But we'll have to see. She won't be applying for several months yet, so she has time to think and investigate further.

But it would not surprise me if in the end she applies to some programs of each of these types.

soozievt

Monydad, if she is not ready to commit yet, then it does make sense that she applies to some of each and that will leave various options open as she figures out what she wants to do.

MommaMeg, congrats to your D! Contact me some time if you wish because two girls from our home studio got into Tisch for the BFA in dance. I know that one for sure is going and I am not sure on the other girl. The one that IS going, grew up with my D...nursery school together, elem, middle....took countless dance classes in each discipline together and were in a jazz dance repertory troupe together. We're seeing the annual dance performance here next weekend and I'll find out what the other girl who got in decided (she is not from our town as the first one is).

Last fall on Parents Weekend, the Tisch Dance students put on a production number and I thought they were outstanding. It is a real accomplishment that your D got in and I bet she will have a really exciting time in that program (and in NYC).