mommd

It is my understanding that the director for MT at Steinhardt works with one general NYU admissions officer. Admission seems to be primarily talent/audition based . Great academics help but if your SAT scores are not 1400+ you're not necessarily out of the running there. However, if you are not accepted into the MT program, you are out of the running for any other NYU program, including Tisch, liberal arts, etc.

alwaysamom

rossji, it's possible that the girl had a low gpa and that might have been what hurt her. NYU looks at gpa above test scores, and you're more likely to get in with slightly lower SAT than a slightly lower gpa. If her SAT was actually in the 1500's then there's obviously something else there that is keeping them from accepting her. I have heard anecdotally of people being told the reasons that they weren't accepted, but nothing from anyone whom I actually know and trust so I'm not sure that it really happens. As far as it being impossible to get into Steinhardt with a score of less than 1400, I do know that that is not true because a friend of my D did it two years ago.

mommd, you're right. You may only apply to one college at NYU.

theatermom

My D was admitted to NYU/Steinhardt with solid grades (B+/A- average from a very well regarded, small, Quaker highschool) but with SAT's under 1300. Unless there is a pre-audition academic review (as at UM), if a school likes your audition enough, you'd be surprised how flexible the SAT threshholds become .

rossji

alwaysamom, I know what you mean about hearing things from someone you know and trust. This girl is just an aquaintance, but we've seen her perform as the lead in many local productions, and she is VERY talented. My d's best friend is friends with her, and he said she is a straight-A student AND got in the 1500's on her SATs. My d met her at a party, and she told my d that she got in talent-wise, but not academic-wise. But again, I didn't hear all the pieces of info directly, so I have a feeling something got miscommunicated. However, you never know about these things. I know someone else, VERY talented, who didn't get into CAP21 but got into CCM, and I know another girl who got into CAP21 who, in my opinion, isn't as talented as the girl who didn't get into CAP21 (she did get into another acting studio, though, so it wasn't her grades). Sometimes it just isn't logical, but you know how talent is subjective!

HoBBiTFooTeDeWoKS

thank you all SOOOOOOOOO much! i'm planning visits to nyu, cmu, emerson, yale, eastman, julliard, and maybe peabody in the first or second week of august....i'll already be really busy...but anywhere else in the northeast or on the way from north carolina to that area that you all think i should check out based on my interests??

Ericsmom

Not sure if on your way to Pittsburgh, but what about Shenendoah Conservatory? I don't have first hand knowledge but have read where people like it; you could search CC. I believe it is an MT program with strong music.

Glad you are getting to go on a trip to visit some of your choices.

rossji

Penn State should be right on your way. Did you consider that? A good friend of ours goes there; he got into many MT programs and chose that over all the others. He LOVES it, and he's very talented.

musicman6887

I know this response is a bit late in the discussion, but my computer is in the shop so I have to use public access internet...

Like Hobbit, I am one of those kids who is running this whole operation themselves. And although I take pride in my independance, this whole things has been one of my greatest challenges and stressors to date. I want to reiterate the importance of this forum and the senior members (aka not me) who give the time to help people like hobbit and I.

Also I agree that the lenght of the entire forum is almost too large to completely read. When I began this daunting task I quickly became overwhelmed and stressed rather than consoled by all the helpful information.

Through my experience, everyone I talk to in the theatre world, whether in my hometown in Atlanta or in New York where I am now, has their own strong opinion on subjects like NYU vs. CMU, BFA vs BA, MT vs Acting, audion materials etc. One of the beauties of a place like this is that a person can hear all sorts of opinions on a single subject.

So thanks everyone...

...and for us rising seniors....RELAX AND TAKE DEEP BREATHS

mtfan

Hobbit, it seems to me you would benefit from from a BM in musical theatre because of your strong vocal training... Some of these schools include; Arizona State, Catholic, FSU, Miami, Steinhardt, OKCU and of course Baldwin-Wallace, my school. If you have any questions, please PM me!

chrisnoo

im confused on nyu right now...if i dont get into cap 21...id want to be a vocal performance major...is that possible? i was searching all over nyus website for the vocal performance major...and couldnt find it...(id do this with the hope of transferring into cap 21 later)

Mary Anna

OK, I'll chime in.
ONe of my students just graduated this year from CAP 21, having entered as a freshman in Strausberg. She claims that the Steinhart kids don't get enough acting training and it shows in the school productions and showcases. Just her opinion of course, but worth noting.

ALso, Tisch is very frank about their lack of endowment for merit scholoarships of any kind. ALthough Susan's dudghter did very well, that is not the norm. They told me that they are considered a younger institution (Hrd to believe) compared to Julliard, and most $$ for endowments in the New York area goes there.

alwaysamom

chrisnoo, the vocal performance program is in Steinhardt at NYU, not Tisch. It would not be possible to get into that program if you are not accepted into CAP21. At NYU, you may only apply to one college and if you are not accepted, you cannot re-apply for at least one year. This is true of every NYU program. I'd also like to say that it is not generally a good idea to try to get into one program at NYU with the intention of transferring to another, especially CAP21. Internal transfers are very rare into Tisch, especially into the CAP21 studio.

MaryAnna, I'd have to disagree with your student as to any lack of acting talent on the part of Steinhardt kids. Having seen several of their productions, there are some incredibly talented kids there. Their production of Ragtime a couple of years ago got rave reviews in the NYC theatre community, including from Stephen Flaherty, Lynn Ahrens and E.L. Doctorow all of whom attended. The reviews in the city papers and theatre websites were uniformly gushing. They don't get the intensive acting classes that Tisch drama students do but that's to be expected because it is a Bachelor of Music in Steinhardt, and the curriculum is music-based. I'm not really sure how large corporations decide to whom to donate funds, but Juilliard's drama program is only two years older than Tisch's. Juilliard certainly has greater name recognition and it's also a much smaller school so the funds they do receive, can go further than at Tisch.

theatermom

My intention is not to turn this discussion into an argument, but I have to come down on Mary Anna's student's side on the discussion of the quantity of the acting (and dance) training offered as part of the BM MT concentration at Steinhardt. Please note that I specifically said QUANTITY, not QUALITY. Never having taken a class there, it would be unfair to judge the quality of the training by what we have seen in performance. As Alwaysamom notes, I'm sure there are many talented students there but how much "value-added" training in acting and dance the program has given them is impossible for an outsider to judge. But I do have some anecdotal information to support my concerns.

When my D was looking at Steinhardt in '03-'04, we saw their production of "A New Brain" which I was enormously impressed with, especially from a vocal standpoint. If you know the show, however, I think you might agree that the vocal demands of that show far outweigh the acting demands. After her audition in November, the MT department at Steinhardt showed some real interest in having my D come there and as such personally invited us to be their guests at several other productions. We were still quite interested in Steinhardt so we gratefully took them up on this generous invitation. We saw a small VP, black box production in December, sort of a chamber opera and we also went to see "Ragtime" in February. Despite what we heard were the rave reviews received by this production from the NYU community, we were both hugely disappointed by what we saw. The staging was well done but I have to tell you that the dance (more choreographed movement actually) and acting were not much better than some high school shows we've seen. Some of the voices were memorable but even there the performances were quite uneven. This is perhaps due to the fact that these shows are all cast with a mix of undergrad and graduate MT's and the occasional VP student. When we had met privately with the MT chair before seeing these last two productions, we went over the MT curriculum with him (he's a terrific guy, by the way - we all really liked him and respected how honest he was with us) and questioned what we perceived to be real shortcomings in both the acting and dance offerings of the curriculum. He reminded us, as has been pointed out here before, that this is a BM with a concentration in MT, not a BFA. As such, it is probably the closest thing to what several people in this forum have expressed an interest in - an undergraduate program that offers a quasi-MT degree focused primarily on vocal performance. It seems to do that quite well. Steinhardt grads probably rank exceedingly high in overall musicianship, but if you want a balanced, well-rounded MT program, I would say that there are other programs to put ahead of Steinhardt on your list.

alwaysamom

theatermom, different opinions are good in a discussion and shouldn't necessarily be construed as argument. The reason I commented was that I think it's important to remember that different programs have different focusses and Steinhardt's MT program is in the school of music so it's obviously not going to have the acting focus that Tisch would have. It wouldn't be possible for their students to have the depth of acting training that those in Tisch receive, just as the reverse would be true for Tisch students and music classes. That really was my reason for posting. (Another thing to remember is that this type of comment from students is fairly common when discussing Steinhardt and Tisch with students in each program, as there seems to be a fairly strong rivalry between the two MT programs, especially this year with disputes over performance venues, etc.) I would just like to comment, though, on Ragtime. It wasn't just the NYU community which gave the show rave reviews. There were reviews, both print and online, by theatre critics in the city who are not NYU affiliated, who thought the show was wonderful, as did, as I said, Ahrens, Flaherty, and Doctorow themselves.

Having said that, no show is going to be universally liked by everyone. Even the most popular shows on Broadway have knowledgeable people who have opposing opinions. Wicked is a good example of this. It reminds me of the discussion here about The Light in the Piazza which so many loved. Yet, I have two friends who do casting for Telsey who didn't enjoy the show at all with the exception of Victoria Clark's performance. I guess it is these types of vagaries which make me love live theatre. Every performance is somewhat unique and there's always the possibility if you don't enjoy a show the first time you see it, that you'll enjoy it the next.

theatermom

Alwaysamom,

I couldn't agree more about the fact that there will always be people who love a show just as much as others are disappointed in it. My point in posting my observations of the training offered at Steinhardt and Tisch are simply to share what we've learned in an attempt to help others assess which programs might meet better their individual needs and preferences. As you noted, neither Tisch nor Steinhardt are recognized as providing as balanced an emphasis on all three disciplines as perhaps some of the other programs that have been discussed here. Vocal training at Tisch is often cited as being less strong than its acting (Tisch students do not have access to NYU voice or music faculty), while Steinhardt, while offering superior music and vocal training doesn't offer (or pretend to offer) the amazing acting training afforded to Tisch students. But this is all nit picking, like arguing the difference between a GPA of 3.9 and 4, as both programs are demonstrably capable of turning out some of the brightest talents in the business. And of course, given the quality and reputation of these programs and the odds of admission anywhere, students should feel enormously proud to be accepted at either of these programs.