deutsch

although isn't it kind of misleading for example if someone said he worked 1 year. but it's not like he worked 24/7, so for someone that worked once a week in the course of a year, can you credit it as one year experience?

lkf725

Well, to each his own. pharmacogenic, you are currently a student and I am an experienced pharmacist who (1) has done it and (2) has heard many, many current opinions of our student interns. It is logical that we would have different perspectives. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, as I am to mine.

For anybody who is lucky enough to have a great high school record and get into a guaranteed 0+6 program, keep in mind:
1. You will take liberal arts courses too. You will meet other people, live with other people and socialize with other people besides pharmacy students. Studying pharmacy is in no way limiting.
2. You will have 6 years to mature and think about what you want to do. You can always change your major from pharmacy to something else, but you may not be able to go from something else to pharmacy.
3. There is no advantage to getting a bachelors degree beforehand. If you think so, please do yourself a favor and inquire at some local pharmacies. All they want is the license on the wall.
4. If you think you want the full liberal arts experience, know that you will be forced to take lots of classes you don't want to take, and you will pay for them.
5. For every year that you are in school rather than working, you are not only losing the tuition but you are also losing the salary for that year. The sum of those is the opportunity cost of extra liberal arts education (somewhere in the range of $100K to $150K per year...is it worth it?)
6. If you think you really want pharmacy and you pass on the direct admission to a program, there is no guarantee at all that you will be able to get into a 2+3 program (or even a BA/BS + 3 program). ALso, you will have the stress of doing well on the PCAT. I have known awesome students with tons of pharmacy work experience and great stats that took several years to get in. 0+6 is a prize.

lkf725

zebes, schools may be tending towards 2+3 because it guarantees them students who can cut it in college. High schools are variable and a 4.0 and one doesn't necessarily equal a 4.0 at another. Also, many of the courses in the first two years are general courses that are not professional and can be fulfilled in the liberal arts college (bio, math, physics, chem, humanities and social science requirements). Thus, I could believe they may be better respected because the students went through more grief to get in.

But, when it is all said and done, most people do not even know where their co-workers got their degree and if you can pass the licensing exam, it really doesn't matter.

lkf725

deutsch, most people would believe 1 calendar year of work (no matter at how many pharmacies) equals 1 year of experience. You will have an opportunity to submit a resume to explain the extent of your experience.

pharmacogenomic

lfk725, fair enough! I'm just providing an alternate perspective as a student who always thought that he was going to become a pharmacist, lost his way, and then found it again. I know it's a little cushy of a story, but I find it a compelling story to share.

My point about the bachelors was not to say that one would not find a job, it's just to give oneself time to choose to go into pharmacy and advance one's standing in admissions. That being said, however, I still maintain my points about students who have gone through the 0-6 program and complained about the curriculum's weakness.

Llk, I also wanted to disagree with you on one small point of choice of pharmacy school. It may not matter in most instances, but if one is looking to secure a top residency/specialization at a prestigious teaching hospital, they do take into account which pharmacy school one went to in the matching process, among other things. Also, going to a better school may allow one more experience in research and connections into academia and industry, as well as possibly a stronger focus towards one particular field in pharmacy. I do know employers who screen pharmacy school quality to support the overall image of incoming clinical pharmacy applicants. It is not a pleasant nor a PC reality, but there are schools that churn out less than desirable PharmDs with the power of the degree without guarantee of competence. What do you think about the current rush to churn out more pharmacists due to the massive shortage? It's my opinion that there are certain laxing of standards and more cracks that fall through (despite the NAPLEX and school accreditation and what not - remember the University of Hawaii scandal?). Not all curriculums at pharmacy schools are equal in preparing their graduates for the real world and the expanding possibilities for the PharmD. This can be overcome by experience, but it's time that one doesn't necessarily have upon graduation that could have been integrated into schooling.

deutsch

thanks for the input lkf and pharmacogenic. it's good we can listen to different point of views. However, wouldn't the 0+6 programs be much tougher? because you're completing it in 2 years fewer than getting a bachelors first. i'm just a highschool senior btw, i only applied to UOP's 2+3 program, since not knowing whether i should pursue those 0+6 programs.

virtuoso28

wow ok. I agree with deutsch; it's very nice to listen to both of your more experience opinions.

However, I am planning on pursuing the 0-6 program anyway because even if I may "lose" part of the college experience since there are more classes to take in a lesser amount of time...and perhaps it will be a bit reminiscent of high school, it will save a LOT of time and money. Maturity and experiences--that comes with who you are and where you came from. Some people...just never mature and I don't think you can just generalize all the 0-6 programs saying that people aren't more mature because they didn't truly go through college.

Also, even if I don't know everything there is to know about the pharmacy community, I do know that I would not go to a school where its pharmacy program is not up to par with what the employers expect. I would obviously try to find a school where many opportunities are provided, where many companies come to look for new employees, and where I can find some nice facilities. Even if every class is squeezed together into a smaller time frame, that doesn't mean the curriculum is particularly weak. I haven't gone to college yet, but just look at the army's medical staff, don't they have learn essentially everything in a textbook in a couple of days? Maybe that's a bit extreme but whatever a school has to offer, they're preparing you for the job; what you get out of it is what effort you put into it AND the initiative you take for yourself. You can always study a bit more after you get your degree, take other classes, or do other things of that sort...but in the end it comes down to whether or not school prepared you well enough for the job because honestly, who cares if you went to whatever school if you can't do the job.

So, I suppose the difference between 0-6 programs and bachelor to graduate paths really depends on how each individual makes of them since everyone's different and either way has its pros and cons.

patel

Well said, virtuoso28.

PharmacyStud101

I am interested in Pharmacy. I applied to the Saint John's 0-6 Pharmacy Program.

I was wondering if a former student of Saint John's University can inform me of the overall program and give me some interesting information or suggestions I should take in consideration. I am also interested in whether the first two years will be demanding and which classes will be the toughest? ej. Biology, Chemistry, Public Speaking?


In addition, do I stand a chance with a 1210 SAT score (math/critical reading)and a 93.8 average. I have also participated in many school activies. My friend told me the minimum SAT score they accept is a 1280. Is this true? If true, does that mean my application wont be reviewed, but automatically eliminated.

Plus, if anyone has information that will better prepare me prior to entering the program will greatly be appreciated.

lkf725

I can't say about St. John's specifically, but the science courses tend to be the most difficult. If you took AP's in high school though, you should be very well prepared and may not find bio and chem to be challanging.

slimp169

Hi all, I am seriously confused with my life at the moment, but i do know one thing, i wanna do pharmacy.

Ive been a pharmacy tech for 3 yrs now and i really admire the pharmacists i work with, the knowledge they have is unbelievable.

but this is where i am worried, i did not do well in high school (average C student) nor have i really done much in college, i am 20 years old and i am going to take some courses in a community college to get my prerequisites done. I am pretty much starting over and I plan on really dedicating myself to my studies, but I do not know if it is truly realistic. Does anyone have any experience with this, can i make it into pharmacy school after a few years in a community college. I know it is extremely competitive, so I do not wanna waste my time and money on this if I get no reward out of it.

any suggestions or feedback?

EDIT: and i would also like to state, i did not do bad in school because i could not handle it, it was based upon laziness and immaturity, i truly did not apply myself and of course i regret it, but i am not one to dwell on my past.. i just want to better myself in the upcoming years. I know I can handle all the tough classes for my prerequisites if I apply myself, i just want to know if at the end of the day its gonna be enough to get into a pharmacy school

lkf725

Maybe you could speak to the admissions director at a few pharmacy schools and see specifically what a person in your situation could do to prove he is worthy of admission. I'm sure you are not the first person who slacked off in high school, but how about now? Will good grades at a community college be counted towards admission? Or, maybe you need to fulfill the approximately 60 credits of prerequisites at a 4 year university and apply as a third year pharmacy student? I think you should go directly to the source to find out these answers.

pharmacogenomic

Usually people who don't do well their first two years of college end up finishing their bachelors before applying, or they go and work for a few years. Some get a masters to prove their academic standing. If you are able to do well on the PCAT, that would probably help you out quite a bit. You could make up for it in amazing extra-curriculars, strong essays, and compelling reasons as to why you want to go into pharmacy. These helped me offset some of my grades, as I didn't have the best of an undergraduate start either (Cs in chemistry).

treemaven

Wow, in the 30 years since I received my Pharmacy degree (and state license), things have certainly changed at the education level! At that time, pharmacy was a 5-year degree program. We finished our 'core curriculum' requirements for the University in the first two years, but we also started the actual pharmacy requirements in the second year. The Pharm.D was a new degree and was earned via a 2-year post-grad program--and there were only a few schools in the country offering that degree.

We had a more rigorous academic schedule that most of the other students on campus, but it did not prevent any of us from partaking of the campus social scene, joining Greek houses, holding part-time jobs, or taking additional courses outside of the pharmacy major courses. Not everyone did all of those things, but it was, just like with every other major on campus, an individual's choice.

When I graduated, I made more in starting salary than pretty much any of my friends in other majors. However, within three months, I was quite bored in the hospital pharmacy and took the LSATs at the first opportunity. I put myself through law school by working in pharmacies during the summers and vacations.

The reason I got bored so quickly (after having worked in pharmacies all through high school and college) was that I was over-trained. We learned soooo much really, really cool stuff in school, but used very, very little comparatively in the retail or hospital pharmacies. In retail, it broke my heart to tell the elderly, fixed-income patients that yes, their heart medication had increased in price yet again--each month. In the hospital, it was boring filling medication trays day in and day out. There was none of the 'counselling' or 'collaborative' opportunities that we spent so much time and effort to learn during school.

Now, I see the requirements for the 6-year degree and can only imagine how much wasted time everyone will have spent once they get to the actual retail or hospital scene and want to apply all that knowledge. Calculus? are you kidding me? One doesn't need calculus to count to 100.

As far as getting a full 4-year degree as a pre-requisite for pharmacy? Well, I can understand the curiosity of exploring the liberal arts fields. I always took additional courses on top of my required pharmacy courses. Certainly, if one doesn't start out with an interest in pharmacy that's a route. But, to deliberately do that (plan on a 4-year degree first) seems silly---and very expensive. A few members of my class had degrees and then transferred in to pharmacy. But those were biology degrees and they found they weren't practical for their interests. So they came to pharmacy.

More than a few of my classmates graduated with their pharmacy degrees and then went to medical school and a couple to dental school. Not a single one of them were turned down for those schools. So, it is a very nice undergraduate degree for medical school applications. It teaches/requires great discipline and provides a very good grounding for the medical school courses. AND as an added bonus, one can always pick up part-time, vacation, and summer work at hourly rates much higher than most part-time jobs.

I truly enjoyed earning my pharmacy degree and really liked all the information I learned. I did not like, however, how little information I was able to use 'on-the-job'. We were definitely over-trained for the 'count and pour' reality.

I did appreciate that I was able to finance my law degree with my pharmacy license. That was a huge benefit. I do not regret my pharmacy undergraduate degree, but I also wouldn't make it into more than it was.

pharmacogenomic

The PharmD is evolving again in the advent of clinical specialties. It's unfortunate that you didn't get to utilize all that you learned - but others with your training helped to change the profession into what it is today, so I don't think it's completely a waste of count and poor today I still have my gripes about retail not utilizing all the training that occurs in pharmacy school, but hospital, industry, and economic pharmacy are expanding. Did you ever combine your two specialties in practice?