afruff23

Oh sorry, I get the exact opposite point that you were trying to get across.

CollegeKid

"Probably the same kinds of jobs any bachelors-level humanities major gets: entry-level positions that don't require highly specific skills like engineering or accounting, but do require literacy and communication ability.

(I looked in my local classifieds, and all of the "Philosopher" openings required advanced degrees or at least ten years of philosophizing experience. )"

Exactly. I think that, in the end, is what you come to.

All liberal arts or humanities degrees are basically equal when it comes to job opportunities. Since you really aren't learning any great skillset, what will matter is your GPA, other experience, interview skills, and so on. You will have the opportunities other liberal arts majors are open to as a philosophy major. Since basically it's either you're a technical major or you're not. If you aren't in that engineer, accounting, etc. group, you will be at a disadvantage.

is that horrible? Depends. If you want to go tto grad school, doesn't matter. Though an accounting major could go to grad school too.

You are putting yourself at the disadvantage because you enjoy the major and material. That's fine though, if you are willing. And I think many are, or else you'd see more business and engineering majors.

Infinite_Truth

Why would you seek a job right after undergrad? *Cough* Law School *Cough*. Then you get a 80k starting salary, if it's a top (T14) law school that is.

chessiestyle

Depending on where you work, that figure's more like 160k.

CCC88'

"Why would you seek a job right after undergrad? *Cough* Law School *Cough*. Then you get a 80k starting salary, if it's a top (T14) law school that is."

Because not everyone wants to be buried in paperwork, overworked, and deal with the frustrating intricacies of the legal system? Not everyone deifies money or status. But, if you truly enjoy that line of work and enter an area of law you're interested in, more power to you.

Mr Payne

You can do this without a philosophy degree.

indiejimmy

I'm looking forward to double majoring in philosophy and chemistry at Northwestern and going pre-med. The subject is so interesting, since it really is the root of all intellectual theory. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in class pondering "Why are we doing this?" instead of just mindlessly accepting it without question. Thinkers are the most interesting people in the world, and I want to be exposed to as many new ideas as I can during the next four years, which I'm really excited about.

pmax57

My son is trying to decide between St John's Annapolis and GWU. He has actually pretty much decided on St John's and I am nervous. St John's has the great books program and much of it is based on western philosophers. GWU admission is for the Elliot School. He states that he thinks he wants to go to Law school. Both schools are giving him ample grants. His reason for going to St John's is that he wants to be involved in the learning process. He does not like lectures and St John's classes are mostly discussion based. What will he do if after completing this program he decides that law school is not for him. What can he do with this philosophy based degree. What if he attends for a semester or 2 and decides it's not for him. I am a single mother who has a son that has read and loved the great books and philosophers during his four years in HS.
I think that this course of study may not be the best choice for a working class kid. He is doing his senior year of HS in China and can not visit these schools and I am worried. I always supported his love of philosophy, languages, the classic books and learning in general but I am scared.

afruff23

@pmax57

Why are you scared? Are you scared he won't be making lots of money? Because I'm sure a liberal arts degree will still get you decent jobs.

pmax57

Not the amount of money but he will need to repay some loans. I will pay most of them. It is really about the choices he will have. We all change. He has been given a great package to attend GWU. He will not be able to change his course of study at St John's and I do not know if he would be able to get enough funds for a transfer if he chose to do that. Study at St John's is tough. Only 68% graduate. No grades, just what they call a Don Rag which decides if the student will be allowed to continue. If the student graduates then it is from a school that most people have not heard of, with a degree that has very little use in the real world unless the student continues education. I am all he has and have nothing of value to leave him. I have encouraged him to love learning for learnings sake but I am afraid for his future. Had CA am ok for now but who knows. If I had anything to leave him I would send him to St John's in a heartbeat. Even an alumni from NYC wrote that the degree from St John's is risky if you do not KNOW that you will go on to post grad school immediately.
You can not even teach without taking added courses.

afruff23

I just finished reading the wikipedia page for St. John's. It is by far the most interesting LAC I have heard of to say the least.

If money were no consideration and your son loves the program, then I would say let him go. You say that he "thinks he wants to go to law school". That gives me the impression that he is just interested in the money and not law itself. Not that that's a bad thing, but it makes you wonder what kind of commitment he would have.

First and foremost, see the law school acceptances for St. John's. Find out the percentage of seniors who went on to law school out of those who applied to law school.

Next, I suggest you have a long talk about your son's future after college. Make a list of anything and everything he would want as a profession. How much will he have to pay off in loans?

pmax57

He states he wants to go to law school because he has seen arbitrary rules and laws in China. States he would like to assist people in maintaining their rights. He has always been concerned with protecting people even in the playground. He has never been interested in money, states he does not want a car because he does not think he would use it at school. He wears tee shirts and cargo pants and does not like to shop. What did you think of the college. Is it to confining.

Mr Payne

Oh yeah? That sort of supposition has never left people in bad straights before.

afruff23

@pmax57

I think it is a good fit for somebody into political philosophy, philosophy, and that sort of thing, but not much else. I personally do not think I could handle reading all those books, but you say he has read plenty throughout high school so I do not think he will mind this.

If he wants go into law solely to protect human rights in China, then I think he will be a bit disappointed in a few decades. I think China is going to (if it hasn't already) surpass the US and make the US irrelevant (and hence lawyers from the US will be irrelevant). But that's just my opinion.

@Mr Payne

What do you mean? Any 4-year college degree will get you a job that can sustain a small family. If not at the very beginning, then over time your salary will rise and it will be more than sufficient. By "decent", I do not mean living it easy and having a paid-off house, but able to make ends meet as well as have some cash on the side.

tetrishead

@pmax57

I assume your two major fears are (1) failure in school, (2) future earning potential. With regards to (1), assuming he doesn't do well at St. John's, the FA for transfer students and for regular students at relatively good schools is exactly the same. St. John's is more well-known for their basketball team than they are for their curriculum, but people in academia know who they are, and if he had to transfer I'm sure he'd be alright.

With regards to (2), that's something you really have no control over. He's going to get a bachelors degree from a fairly good LAC, and if he's not entrepreneurial in nature or "into" money there's nothing you can do about that (or should, even if you could). Presuming most of his collegiate debts will be paid off by you he'll be ahead of the pack in general in having a BA and having no debts. It would probably be beneficial to get him to read something like The Four Pillars of Investing so he can save money intelligently for the rest of his life to allow him to do the work he wants to do, but I doubt he'd get through it if it's not a topic that he cares about.

The only thing I'd be slightly worried about is law school. I'd advise him against it until he experiences some of the work he wants to do, because law school is expensive and the field of law is incredibly unattractive to anyone who's not going to a top 15 school (and even then, the job field is pretty horrendous). He really doesn't need a law background anyway as it's mostly activists that "monitor" these situations while lawyers rarely if ever play a role.
Ugh, this is completely wrong, but I'll leave it alone since I think you mean well.