Ranking International Relation Programs - Page 15

UCLAri · 05-24-2006, 09:39 PM

CaliforniaLawyer,

I'm just going to handle each of your questions in the usual "quote" followed by response form.

Quote:

I wish I could say that I'm totally over it -- maybe it's the competition freak in me -- but I still wonder if I should go to Johns Hopkins over UCSD if I got into both. However, I just cannot justify spending $100,000 on another "title" when I could spend $20,000 and get a great education. Also, I love California and don't want to have to leave it for the East Coast if I can help it.

There's nothing wrong with choosing a location, especially for programs of similar quality.

I'm also a big fan of considering cost. Sure, SAIS may get you the better connections right away if you want to work in DC. But what if you want to work in California? Plus, is having $100,000 in debt really worth it, if the marginal income gains aren't any different?

Quote:

I know you chose UCSD, and I'm sure that even though UCSD is a top-ten program, I'm sure you've thought very carefully about what you might be giving up by going there instead of Hopkins et. al. Could you share those with me? What do you think you are you gaining by going to UCSD?

Well, SAIS is undoubtedly the "big name" in IR. Along with GTown, it forms a sort of pinnacle of IRdom. However, IR has traditionally been focused on Europe (this was particularly true during the Cold War), and many of the East Coast programs reflect that. IR/PS is a much newer program (barely 20 years old), and focuses on East Asia, Latin America, and the Pacific Rim. This makes it very different from SAIS and GTown. By choosing IR/PS, I believe that I can gain much better focus on my area of study, as well as the distinction of being an expert in East Asian IR as opposed to an IR specialist.

I'm also gaining guaranteed access to language programs and a definite curriculum with EA as its focus.

Quote:

Generally speaking, Hopkins is ranked higher, but for the specific field of Asian studies, where do you think UCSD falls? Why did you choose UCSD over Monterey, if Monterey was one of your considerations? Honestly, looking at the UCSD program, I really don't see any reason to (1) spend 5 times the money and (2) leave paradise. For me, it seems like it would be a pretty easy decision to go to UCSD, but you've been thinking about this a lot longer than I have, and wonder if I'm missing something?

Unfortunately, I never considered Monterey, so I can't be of any help there. Sorry.

As for UCSD vs. Hopkins, I think that IR/PS takes the cake as far as East Asian focused people go. This is both its greatest strength and greatest weakness, however. Hopkins is more likely to attract a larger group of people (as it's much more generalized) and therefore be able to select from larger numbers of people. Nonetheless, if you want to live in and work in California (as I do), and are particularly interested in EA, then IR/PS is a great option.

I won't say that IR/PS has SAIS's reputation. Far from it. But for what I'm interested in (EA, particularly the PRC and Japan), IR/PS is undoubtedly the best combination of location, cost (especially with half-funding), and curriculum.

CaliforniaLawyer · 05-25-2006, 02:20 PM

Do you think you will be at a disadvantage if you want to get a job in D.C.?

Why didn't you consider Monterey?

jacquesier · 05-25-2006, 04:37 PM

SAIS also has a specific programme in Nanjing China http://www.sais-jhu.edu/nanjing/ (much like the Bologna Center) so I don't know where you claim they focus too much on Europe out East. SAIS, Gtown, and SIPA (SIPA has a East Asian Institute devoted to studying Asian states like China and Japan and Vietnam that was founded in 1949 (6yrs before Monterey) http://www.columbia.edu/cu/weai/ )) are the top and they are near the center of power (D.C. and NYC) so they have to dabble in East Asian affairs. I'd go to an East Coast school over Monterey any day simply because a degree from there is not as well known on the East Coast where policy is made. Then again if you think you want to stay in Cali then by all means go, but Monterey will not get you in out East in my opinion. The sum of my argument is that simple because Monterey's location is closer to Asia and people of Asian descent can be found nearby the region doesn't automatically make it the best place to be for Asian studies.

CaliforniaLawyer · 05-25-2006, 08:46 PM

Thanks for the input.

I'm aware of the other schools' Asia programs.

I'm not sure he meant that they focus too much on Europe. I think he's just saying that that is where the strength of their reputation lies. The Asia options at those schools is more like the red-headed stepchild of those (admitedly great) programs. If I were interested in Europe (I'm not), I wouldn't even be having this discussion -- of course those schools are where the action's at. What I think UCLAri is saying, however, is that UCSD's Asia program is strong enough to help offset most prestige issues because Asia isn't an afterthought for UCSD like it is for the other schools, especially when combined with the perfect location and unbeatable price.

I wouldn't live in New York City if you paid me to. I've been there, done that, and it just isn't for me. Especially not for the $100,000 I'd be shilling out. Under no circumstances will I willing choose to live in NYC again. You can have Columbia.

I'm definitely more open to moving to D.C., but the issue with SAIS and Gtown v. UCSD has more to do with money than anything else. I've already shilled out a ton of cash to pay for my law degree, and let me tell you, paying off $100,000 dollars in loans is HARD, EVEN WITH A LARGE INCOME. I don't know how old or young you are or what your financial situation is, but I've learned by taking on a large amount of student debt and then working in a large law firm which pays a six figure salary, let me tell you, those payments are a pain in the ass. I almost want to throw up when I think about taking on another $100,000 in debt and then drop down to make a third of what I'm making right now. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me if other options are available.

After thinking about it, it doesn't make any sense to go to Monterey if I can go to UCSD, either. In fact, if I do decide to get a masters in international relations, I've practically already decided to go to UCSD. There is no way that going to SAIS or Gtown makes any sense to me, unless someone were to tell me that under no circumstances would I be able to get a job in D.C. with a masters from UCSD. If you can tell me that, then I guess becoming a pedigree/financial aid whore again makes sense. A friend of mine works in the NSA, and she got her degree from Pitt, so I know SAIS and Gtown don't have a lock on the government. My dream job is to become a Foreign Service officer, and I don't even need a degree in IR for that.

Basically, I want the knowledge, but I'm too old to care where I get it unless my choice will negate its usefulness. I'm trying to get a feel here for the number of missed opportunities a person might risk by going to SAIS over UCSD. If I'll only be missing 25% of the opportunities, I can accept that. If it's more like 75%, then I've got some rethinking to do, which might entail me just not going at all. If some ivy league snob wants to pass over my resume because I went to UCSD, that's fine with me. His loss. But if they all pass it over, that's a very different situation.

I feel like I'm rambling and repeating myself now.

Anyways, thanks for the input.

When you

CaliforniaLawyer · 05-25-2006, 08:52 PM

There are some typos in that one.

What I meant to say is I'd like to get some idea of the number of missed opportunites a person risks by going to UCSD rather than SAIS, not the other way around.

Sorry if that was unclear!

UCLAri · 05-25-2006, 09:47 PM

jacquesier,

I know about SAIS's Nanjing program, as I almost applied to it. But like CaliforniaLawyer suggested, it's not SAIS's strength. Now, that's not me saying that going to SAIS is going to keep you out of Asian focused career options. Not at all. But UCSD, just from the people I've spoken with, has the name as THE Pacific Rim specialty program.

It's not just location, either. It's the curriculum and people they have on the faculty that affects that reputation.

Quote:

Then again if you think you want to stay in Cali then by all means go, but Monterey will not get you in out East in my opinion

Before I decided on IR/PS, I made a point of asking the career center how successful they were with getting people jobs in DC, and I was told that the majority of people who want jobs with the Fed will get them. The myth of the SAIS-GTown cabal of power I suspect is a bit overblown. There is truth to SAIS and GTown having the best connections, but just based on my own experiences in DC, there are people with the NSA who got their degreees from Denver. So it's not that long of a shot to go to UCSD or Monterey.

Plus, you have to ask yourself honestly whether or not it's worth it to take another $75K to $100K in debt for a degree that does not offer huge marginal returns. If SAIS offers a fellowship, then I believe it's worthwhile. Otherwise, why put yourself that much into debt? For a name? Meh.

CaliforniaLawyer,

Keep an open mind about SAIS and GTown, as they are both great programs (and DC is a great town.) I wouldn't incur $100K in debt for any program, myself (unless we're talking med or law school), but I'd say that the connections can be worth it to an extent.

UCLAri · 05-25-2006, 09:50 PM

CaliforniaLawyer,

One more thing about IR/PS to note- it's heavy on econ and finance. I'd be cautious if you're a huge mathophobe, though I hear the mathophobes just drudge through the first year and then avoid the econ and finance the second year.

BTW, which language are you interested in/a speaker of?

CaliforniaLawyer · 05-25-2006, 10:08 PM

I double-majored in chemistry and economics once upon a time, so my math was tip-top. Skimming the GRE questions, though, I'm amazed at how little I remember of basic high school stuff!

Mandarin is the language that I'm perpetually working on. Technically, I'm at the "intermediate" level, but as you probably know with Asian languages, that means I know a lot less than, say, an intermediate-level German speaker. My German remains better than my Mandarin, despite not having used it in years!

UCLAri · 05-26-2006, 12:28 AM

[quote]Skimming the GRE questions, though, I'm amazed at how little I remember of basic high school stuff! [\quote]

Welcome to my life, 6 months ago...

Quote:

Mandarin is the language that I'm perpetually working on. Technically, I'm at the "intermediate" level, but as you probably know with Asian languages, that means I know a lot less than, say, an intermediate-level German speaker. My German remains better than my Mandarin, despite not having used it in years!

Tell me about it...

CaliforniaLawyer · 07-25-2006, 07:16 PM

Haven't posted in about a month and was wondering if you've gotten any new insights regarding IR/PS that you didn't have before.

Also, I've got another question that has probably been covered extensively in other threads. What opportunities exist for a person who gets their IR/PS degree and wants to go further and get a Ph.D. in security studies from, say, Georgetown? Do you know how that works and how likely it is?

Hope all is well.

UCLAri · 07-25-2006, 11:39 PM

No second thoughts yet. In fact, I'm more excited than ever!

I talked to some IR/PS folks (students, grads, and staff), and it seems that the general outlook for grads is very very good. You get good recommendations, you have good training in both qualitative and quantitative work, and you're usually very well-focused in what you want to work on. All these things are important for people looking to go the PhD route.

kfc4u · 07-26-2006, 01:57 AM

UCLAri (or anyone else), can you rank the terminal/professional master's IR programs for east asia?

also, how much do IR masters programs cost? i know they're different for each program, but can you give me some general comparisons, like IR/PS vs. the more expensive ones that you turned down?

UCLAri · 07-26-2006, 05:06 AM

If you're looking ONLY at East Asia, I'd say that IR/PS, SAIS, and SIPA are probably a toss-up, with Georgetown and KSG coming in strong as well.

I'll get slammed for shilling, but I personally would say that IR/PS, the only program with a clear East Asian focus, is probably the best program for you kfc. But again, I'm just waiting for the, "OMG NOT PRIVATE YOU'RE A SHILL" comments from someone.

Private programs usually run $35-45K a year, and public programs are usually around $12K in-state.

CaliforniaLawyer · 07-26-2006, 04:56 PM

I don't know where I got this impression, but I think you're interested in Japan, right? So you're going to focus on Japan and the Japanese language?

Also, what career track are you going to focus on? Policy, managment, etc.?

Thanks for all of your insight into this program. If I can ask, what are your long-term plans? Department of State? Intel? NGO? Business?

I'm thinking I might get serious about this.

UCLAri · 07-27-2006, 01:12 AM

I most certainly am fairly Japan-centric, but I think I may "branch out" while at UCSD and go more toward China. But we'll see in a quarter if I don't just fall into my comfort zone as usual.

I'm focusing on security.

Oh, and as for long-term plans...err...I'm not entirely sure. I'm not really worried quite yet, but right now I'm basically going research track. We'll see where my capricious interests lead me in a quarter.