illinisue

Thanks Doctorjohn. She attended last year, but being a sophomore didn't pay a lot of attention to the audition process because she was in call backs for Ragtime (wasn't cast) which took up a lot of her time. We'll see how it goes

mtmommy

Doctorjohn--I'm writing this to you on the Otterbein thread because I know you've been instrumental in compiling and updating the Big List. I've been thinking about Cal State Fullerton as it appears on the Big List. It's not marked as either non-audition or a selective program. I'm thinking maybe it should be marked as a selective program AND a non-audition program. It's unique in that there is no audition for lower division coursework; however, at the end of sophomore year, the students are juried and very very few of the kids who are on the MT track actually wind up in the MT program for upperdivision work. They will be juried at the end of junior year, also, and may once again face being cut. This makes CSUF one of the most selective programs out there for graduating with a degree in MT. I see a lot of southern California students going this route and I don't believe many of them realize the odds.

wct

mtmommy-

I could be wrong, but if you do not get on the BFA track at CSUF you can still graduate with a BA in theater.

lynnm

Going along with the theme: Changes to the Big List.....U of Central Florida actually has a two-audition process. I believe they are the only school that requires and audition and then you may get a "call back" for a second audition. Therefore, I definitely think it needs to be changed to a Selective school.

mtmommy

Wct--You're right that students that don't get into the MT for upper division still get to graduate with a BA in theatre, but I think the list is misleading because it's supposed to be about MT programs.

Lynnm--OU also has a two-audition process, beginning with a video or in-person audition and then the student is asked to come to campus for the audition.

MidgetMom

I definitely agree that UCF needs to be changed to "selective" status. That was the only college my dd auditioned for based on comments from directors and other students who were already in the program. They were convinced she'd get in without a problem. My dd was rejected after the callback, but was offered both BA in Theater Studies and BM in Music Performance (although the music department audition was totally separate and through the music department).

She is now juggling with which program to take, but would like to take the new dance minor at UCF, which is going through the theater department and the Brian Vernon, who conducted the dance audition for the BFA is heading up the dance minor. Since my dd had already performed for Mr. Vernon twice (once at the BFA audition and second at the callback), she e-mailed him and asked if it were necessary to go to the dance minor audition. He answered that they were being very selective in all their theater/music majors and that she would have to be seen yet a third time for a minor!!!!

Their program is getting bigger and bigger and they are definitely being more selective.

MidgetMom

Doctorjohn mentioned Florida Thespians as a place to be seen. I highly recommend it for juniors, not seniors, necessarily. My dd scored Superior Ratings in both monologues and musical theater song on the district level in her junior year and qualified for the state competition. Because she was doing Anne Frank at the time of the state competition, she decided to forego thespians to do Anne Frank. She scored Superiors again this year, as a senior, but was told it was probably a little late to get the full benefits, so she decided it wasn't worth the time and money (as she was also involved in a lot of school activities at the time).

aspiringactress1

drjohn - I am participating in the National IE competion at national thespians and might also want to use the song I'm performing for the college auditions - are the colleges going to also be watching the IE's? Would you recommend NOT singing the song I am already performing, or does it not really matter? Just wondering as I plan for Nebraska...thanks!

doctorjohn

aa1:

I've never seen the IE's, and I'm not sure we're even allowed to watch. (I can check on that.) But in any case, I see no problem with using the same song for the IE's and for the college auditions.

MidgetMom:

Is it possible that there are two Thespian conventions in Florida? The one I recommend that seniors participate in is held in Lakeland in November. Auditions are set up specifically for seniors interested in attending college theatre programs. (These auditions are entirely separate from the competitions.) I have gone to the conference for two years, and called back students who then auditioned for us either on campus or at the unifieds, and did well.

MidgetMom

Actually, I have no idea. I know my dd went to the districts and was eligible for the state conference in the spring. But, she goes to a small, private high school that doesn't have a big theater department (actually, it's reduced to a few drama classes), and their Thespian group is very small (maybe 5 total). 99% of my dd's training has come from private lessons, and other outside sources. I now realize that my dd missed out on a lot going to this school. If only we could turn back time.......Fortunately, my younger dd just got accepted into the PA high school and she'll be in the loop for everything.

soozievt

MidgetMom, our school does not even HAVE a theater department. None of my child's lessons were at school. Our school does put on productions but does not have classes. We have chorus and band. There is a dance class for kids with no dance experience. So, here, all the lessons and so on were also outside of school.

Also, these wonderful sounding thespian events such as in Florida where my D has many friends who go with their schools, sound very interesting but there is nothing like that here.

We also do not have performing arts high schools in our state. While it is true that many going onto college in this field come from such high schools where there is training and where theater is big and there are many theater state events, there are also kids who get into college theater programs who went to just a typical ordinary high school with no theater classes.

DizzyDani88

YUP to soozie. Out of my most talented theater friends, I'd say 90% go to regular 'ol public schools. They are getting into top programs. I wouldn't say they "missed out" by not going to performing arts high schools. They're choosing to specialize in college. My school has 0 drama classes, 0 dance classes, 0 vocal classes. And some of us are doing just fine. We've got one going to Strasberg next year and one going to Hartt. Thats outta a class of less than 100 at a small public school...

MidgetMom

It's true that not every school has big fine arts departments and that so many successful kids come from "ordinary schools". But, this goes back to some of my original posts (for which I was chided), with regard to kids having a lot of opportunity. Your own child is a perfect example. Her natural talent has been nurtured with opportunities like Stagedoor Manor for several summers to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. Not all of us are fortunate enough to be able to send our children to these programs. Also, you've been the source of a lot of information on this forum and other forums. You must be "in the know" somehow. That, coupled with your dd's talent and drive is the key to her success.

DizzyDani88

MidgetMom- I have trouble accepting the idea that there is a "key" to each person's success. There are so many roads to this same goal. It seems that there is a belief that the kids who succeed are the ones who have been singing and dancing from the womb and have spent mom and dad's every paycheck on their 'training'. Perhaps this makes up a percentage. But there are many others who would accomplish this same thing with or without parent support, with or without a performing arts high school in the area, with or without starting from a young age. I know many who have worked for scholarships at dance studios, have taken private lessons with teachers in exchange for cleaning the teacher's house, who have devoured hundreds upon hundreds of plays and "acting" books and have saved up for occasional lessons to turn all this study into practice. Kids who want this bad enough find a way to do it. I work 5 days a week to help pay for dance classes, and I'm not even a dancer! And how are you so sure that Susie's D hasn't gotten scholarships to Stagedoor, after being recognized as a talent who was dedicated to the program? This is not to say she has or hasn't, that's none of our business, but to assume that she has only gotten where she is because she has been "fortunate enough" in the money department is a very bold. I've seen the girl perform- and whether or not she'd been going to SDM for 8 or however many years- she'd still have a powerhouse voice and a killer presence and energy. That's not something you learn at summer camp. There are SO MANY ways to get there. If you want it bad enough, you'll find it. Even if you go to public school, and don't attend a performing arts summer camp.

Dani

soozievt

I agree with Dani's message....there are many roads to one's goals and there is not one "ticket" to get there. I think an assumption is being made that if only a kid had X or Y opportunity or X or Y amount of money, he or she could get into Z. I don't look at it that way. If I did, I could say, if only my child had gone to performing arts high school. If only my child could have had acting classes. If only our state had all these various theater events for high schoolers. If only we lived in a bigger area where there were more theater opportunities. I just would not think in those terms. Someone could turn around and say your child went to private school and it even had a few drama classes. Your child has a mom who is a music/voice teacher. Your child lives where there are dinner theaters and professional opportunities and various auditions (often I know of maybe one show per season in my region to even try out for). I have NO reason to think this way, however. I know kids from ALL walks of life going into this field!!

Is a summer program like the one my child went to a guarantee of success?
Not from what I can tell. I know someone who has played a lead every session she has ever gone there and she only got into ONE of her BFA programs out of many auditions. Does everyone have to have a LOT of money to go far with this? I know someone who went there on full scholarship and has now gotten into several BFA programs and is going to go to one of the top ones in the country. My child's classmate at my rural public high school, who is a refugee from another country, who lives in a subsidized apartment, who has only been in school productions, and has done one summer of a program, is going to one of the known BFA programs in MT. My child is on financial aid as is the girl she is going to room with at NYU who is from VT as well and who also went to Stagedoor a few times. By the way, Stagedoor does not prepare kids for college auditions. If I made some logical step of X program gets you to Y...I could assume that if only my child went to a precollege MT program and got training in college audition prep (none of that happened at my child's program). Her summer program, in part, was an opportunity to be in many theatrical productions amongst other talented kids who shared her passion. However, if she lived in a state maybe like yours, there would possibly be local opportunities all summer to do that very thing, as your D has done many local productions. We live in an area where many kids do not even go to college. Many who dance at our studio do not have much. Our studio does not have these expensive costumes I hear about in other regions of the country....rather they charge a modest fee and then mothers help sew costumes too.

Some kids have had voice training since they were young. Again, I would not assume THAT is an advantage. My child began lessons in seventh grade. These are just examples. I read the list of award winners for NFAA...many went to well known performing arts high schools.....and then there are some like my child who went to some unknown high school, a school that never has even heard of the NFAA awards and does not even know she won one, nor likely cares.

Kids come from a variety of backgrounds who go into this field. While I would agree that some training is needed as well as stage experiences, there is a wide variety of backgrounds in this regard who then go onto college for a MT program. I think it is Theatermom's D (who goes to UM) who had only been in a few shows before she got into college.

As well, one can't assume everybody else's finances from a little bit of information. For one to assume that someone went to a summer program so they are well to do, is just that, an assumption. That would be like me assuming someone who went to private school was rich. There is more to it than on the surface.

So, I would shy away from analyzing that if someone had only done one particular experience, then it was a ticket in. I know kids, even VERY VERY wealthy ones, who went to SD, who did NOT get in their favored BFA programs. And then I know kids from modest means in my very own community who have gotten in. It still comes down to talent and what happens in an audition room, as well as some luck no doubt. A kid could enroll in X summer program, be it SDM or CMU, or what not, and still not get into any college program. The program my child attended was not a stepping stone to anything, nor did we ever send her there with any goal of that sort in mind. She picked it one summer (as a gift in fact from someone else, not us) cause she wanted to go to camp and do theater with other kids. That was the reason at age nine and still the reason now and she is already IN at college.

So, in closing, just like your family has pieced together various lessons and theater opportunities and schooling, so have families like us, but perhaps it contained different pieces, but pieces yet the same.

By the way, I have NO expertise in this field whatsoever. I am not a music or voice teacher as I think you mentioned you are. As my kids have participated in various activities over the years, we followed along and just learned along the way and supported their interests. I do not know that much more about this than soccer, ski racing, or a myriad of other things my kids have been doing over the years. I just read, connect with others like on here, and go with the flow. It is not like we live among others who are going for this either so we are on our own to learn about it. I'm simply a mom who sometimes wears a theater hat, a band hat, a tennis hat or a soccer mom hat, or sometimes a very warm ski hat (LOL). If you had told me when I had kids that one of mine would go into theater, I would have never have guessed. As they tried out various activities, one of mine just kept going and going with this one and pushed us into getting more and more opportunities. It never was our goal. She has driven us (though I drive her literally all over in the car, lol). Definitely had no clue when this really got going but like any parent, ya learn along the way. I am sure you would agree on that one being a supportive mom yourself!

I happen to think your own daughter has been quite successful both before college and now even with her college quest. She tried for one school and is going there! That is great odds. Had my D ONLY tried for the first school she had auditioned for, she would not be going! My feeling is had your own child auditioned for more schools, given the tough odds, she'd have gotten into more too but does it matter? You can only attend one and luckily it appears she has some great programs to look forward to next year at her selective college. In my view, she has done great!
Susan