cartera45

There's certainly no history of that by other groups in the US. People who are unwelcome tend to do that. The history of Italian immigration is very informative.

MomLive

We are talking about 13 year old kids here, aren't we?

BigG

That depends on how many times students have been retained in. i.e. failed a grade(s).

Peer groups can become terribly distorted due to the prescense of older, problem kids.
This is exacerbated when these are part of a group which has a separate cultural and national identity.

Mr Payne

Liberals. Good comedy.

Mr Payne

I love it that you actually make an argument. Good job bro.

BigG

What if the folks in the southwest vote to become part of Mexico or another country instead of the US?

Would that be an acceptable thing?

You know where this is headed?

What if the voters of the southeastern states wanted the same thing?

Mr Payne

Good thing that Mexico is a great country to live in. Can't wait til that happens.

BIGeastBEAST

I can't believe our society has deteriorated so greatly that we actually have to debate whether or not it's OK for children to carry an American Flag.

That rumbling under your feet is the collective masses of WWII Veterans rolling in their graves.

gimmechocolate

^ Indeed. The American flag on American soil is not a provocative symbol. That a couple of imbecilic school administrators want to make it one does not make it so. And of course when things like this happen, one recognizes that it is the assertions represented by the flag -- the patriotic spirit it, the love of country, the belief in American exceptionalism -- which these learned school administrators really object to. Fortunately, these kinds of moronic decisions are typically met with the derision with which they deserve. This case seems to be no exception.

collegealum314

So now Italians were discriminated against? I remember in an earlier thread about ethnic minorities there was nearly a concensus that Italians in the early to mid 20th century had the same experience in society as WASPs. In other words, Scalia benefitted from "white privelege" in the same way his WASP contemporaries did. It was also noted that there was no comparison to the Latino experience.

Cardinal Fang

It's a provocative symbol, by definition, if it provokes people. Why would people be provoked by the flag? Maybe because in their experience it comes accompanied by violent people shouting, "I'm American AND YOU'RE NOT! Go back to Mexico!" to third-generation Americans.

I'm a proud American, but when I see a pickup truck with an American flag on it, I don't consider that positive. In my experience, those who drive such trucks tend to be jerks who drive too fast, too recklessly and way too close to me.

Bogney

Our society is great because we can debate the appropriateness of carrying the American flag to school on Veterans' Day. That is not evidence of the deterioration of society, but evidence that the design of the founding fathers is still functioning well. It would be an awful society if the appropriateness of carrying the flag in a particular situation could not be debated, if only one point of view were heard and tolerated. The actions of the Westminster Baptist Church might be evidence of deterioration of society, but this is a minor incident being blown out of proportion.

Considered in a vacuum, carrying the American flag is at worst neutral and in general a benign act. However, flag waiving in fact can become a suspect activity depending on the context. Context actually does matter sometimes. Various "patriotric" groups in the late 1800s, the "Know nothings," etc., were virulently anti-foreign and anti-catholic Americans who probably wrapped themselves in the American flag. Patriotism is often "the last refuge of the scoundrel." Flags were displayed in the 60s to show hippies and protestors who was really American: "love it or leave it." Hippies and protestors burned flags, or otherwise descrated them, to show disgust with the government and "establishment values," which they viewed as being truly American in exercising their right to dissent policies antithetical to their view of American values.

Add to that the fact that schools have never been a place where students have an unfettered right to express themselves - the kids wearing the "Bong hits for Jesus" found that out a few years back. I do realize that the flag is not a "Bong hits for Jesus" teashirt; however, in certain contexts, carrying an American flag in an American city can be an act of incitement.

Well, "just deal with it" is a viable response to those who would feel agitated by the sight of an American flag in an American town, from those looking at it from the outside. However, the outsider does not have to deal with the particular aggrieved parties in question.

This probably should have been handled differently - as a teachable moment with a firm hand toward those who might have been looking for provocation to engage in unruly behavior. However, looking for ways to control the school environment so that disruption is minimized and scholastic pursuits maximized is also generally an appropriate attitude. If (hypothetically) the official done nothing and if the kid had been beaten up by others who associated him with the white supremacist element at the school who had been waiving American flags last year, then the official would have been critized, and perhaps sued, for negligent supervision in allowing the boy to carry a flag in a racially divisive and charged environment.

I suspect that this situation was somewhere in between completely benign and deliberately provocative: some racial tension simmering but not flaring up. The school administration overreacted with the intention to preserve a generally peaceful school environment, not with the intent to disrespect the flag (which was surely flying at the school and displayed in the auditorium, etc.)

Apparently, even the kid now feels sorry for the administrator feeling the political backlash. If the administrator has a history of poor judgment, then this should prompt some action. If this is the only error he has made, and it was was a clumsy effort to preserve a calm and safe school environment, then give him a break. I suspect that the attention has already given him his teachable moment.

Bogney

Collegealum: Did you study any U.S. history? There is a long history of discrimination against the Italians who emigrated to this country, in part due to their appearance and language, in part due to the general resentment against new waves of emigrants competing with groups who had been here longer for jobs, and in part due to their Catholicism.

BIGeastBEAST

You are just making excuses Bogney.

This kid didn't show up on Cinco De Mayo and wave US Flags in some Mexican kids face and say, "USA, USA, USA!!!"

He put a flag on his bike on Veterans Day because he comes from a military family.

Mr Payne

Liberals, please continue with these arguments. It does your cause well.