Global warming skeptics growing in numbers - Page 24

dstark · 07-02-2009, 02:21 PM

I try to look forward, catahoula. I don't care that the alternative energy is uneconomical now. It will be.

The world is spending $13 billion to $26 billion to partially build a nuclear fusion plant that will start in 2018 and will take another 7 years to get going. The world is spending $1 to $2 billion a year on this plant.

That's a joke to me. We should be spending more.

And yes, it may not work. (Plant may be the wrong word).

catahoula · 07-02-2009, 02:26 PM

The fusion plant, I haven't heard of.

Where at?

(I'm asking because I'd like to read up on it.

)

I'm on board with spending money on fusion, btw.

It's the "jobs installing solar panels" thing I find pitiful.

dstark · 07-02-2009, 02:29 PM

Project is a better word. Sorry.

Nuclear fusion power project to start in slimmed-down version - Yahoo! News

dstark · 07-02-2009, 02:32 PM

6 Bright Ideas for the Future of Energy ? Fusion, Trash to Power, CO2 Fuel, Carbon Sequestration - Popular Mechanics

Mr Payne · 07-02-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

The problem with ANWR is that we can't refine most of the oil that could be produced up there. Our refineries, for the part, can only refine light sweet crude and ANWR oil is a much heavier type. What would most likely end up happening is that the vast majority of the oil would be sent to China who has the refining capabilities. It might make a small dent in prices, but would do absolutely nothing for US energy security.

And I like the polar bears.

Just stop. Seriously, just stop.

fundingfather · 07-02-2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

The problem with ANWR is that we can't refine most of the oil that could be produced up there. Our refineries, for the part, can only refine light sweet crude and ANWR oil is a much heavier type. What would most likely end up happening is that the vast majority of the oil would be sent to China who has the refining capabilities.

While this may be what is reported on liberal blogs, the DoE thinks otherwise:

Quote:

The opening of the ANWR 1002 Area to oil and natural gas development is projected to increase domestic crude oil production starting in 2018. In the mean ANWR oil resource case, additional oil production resulting from the opening of ANWR reaches 780,000 barrels per day in 2027 and then declines to 710,000 barrels per day in 2030. In the low and high ANWR oil resource cases, additional oil production resulting from the opening of ANWR peaks in 2028 at 510,000 and 1.45 million barrels per day, respectively. Between 2018 and 2030, cumulative additional oil production is 2.6 billion barrels for the mean oil resource case, while the low and high resource cases project a cumulative additional oil production of 1.9 and 4.3 billion barrels, respectively.
Crude oil imports are projected to decline by about one barrel for every barrel of ANWR oil production.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicer...af(2008)03.pdf

randomthots · 07-02-2009, 03:48 PM

This article says ANWR oil is better quality than Prudhoe Bay Oil, which presently supplies refineries on our west coast:

Juneau Empire Story Archive

randomthots · 07-02-2009, 03:54 PM

A study which summarizes the results of international surveys of climate scientists conducted in 1996 and 2003 by two German environmental scientists, Dennis Bray and Hans von Storch:

http://www.heartland.org/custom/semo.../pdf/20861.pdf

Note that climate scientists that "believe" in AGW is nowhere near 95%. There is a substantial percentage that disagree. In other words, no consensus.

My own sense is that in the last couple of years, individuals and scientists are moving away from AGW somewhat. Maybe not to being totally skeptics, but at least being open-minded about other causes for global warming, possibly because the climate models haven't been too good at their predictions.

catahoula · 07-02-2009, 03:54 PM

dstark, thanks for the link... I guess I haven't been paying attention to what's happening on the fusion end.

But, it's still a long, long way off even if successful.

Quote:

A spokesman for ITER told AFP that the scaled-down version would entail using hydrogen initially.

Key experiments using tritium and deuterium, designed to validate fusion as a producer of large amounts of power, would not take place until 2026, the spokesman said.

Quote:

If ITER is a success, the next step would be to build a commercial reactor, a goal likely to be further decades away.

A portion of the stimulus money might have seen a rush version of the project done here.

I'd have been okay with that - it would have given a lot of scientists something useful to do, rather than just spending their days dreaming up explanations for the climate models lack of predictive capability.

pugmadkate · 07-02-2009, 03:57 PM

The problem with ANWR is that you cannot "rewild" a place.

The problem with ANWR is that it's yet another expensive, short-term quasi solution is a long term, real problem.

Good grief.

randomthots · 07-02-2009, 03:59 PM

Have you ever been to the north slope? I have. The precautions taken at Prudhoe Bay are remarkable and effective. There would very little impact at ANWR as well.

Mr Payne · 07-02-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

The problem with ANWR is that you cannot "rewild" a place.

The problem with ANWR is that it's yet another expensive, short-term quasi solution is a long term, real problem.

Good grief.

Totally irrelevant. If oil approaches $150/bbl for any significant period of time ANWR will be drilled. Economic needs will overpower environmental needs every time.

dstark · 07-02-2009, 04:02 PM

"I'd have been okay with that - it would have given a lot of scientists something useful to do, rather than just spending their days dreaming up explanations for the climate models lack of predictive capability. "

Nuclear fusion is a long way off. And spending $2-3 billion a year isn't going to speed it up.

catahoula · 07-02-2009, 04:08 PM

pug, how big of an area do you think they would "de-wild"?

fundingfather · 07-02-2009, 04:11 PM

I wonder how many people who are against ANWR drilling have even seen pictures of the area? First, it is a very small area out of the total reserve. Secondly, it is in the most god-forsaken part of the world - an area that no human would ever even want to go to - and if you did, you better bring gallons of mosquito repellent or you will be eaten alive. It is actually the most perfect place for drilling on the earth - an extremely inhospitable area, small in size, and devoid of anything remotely scenic.