Consolation

Cuse0507, I live in Maine and I am ASHAMED OF MY FELLOW CITIZENS TODAY. I can't begin to tell you what I think of you and your "congratulations" since it would probably get me booted from CC.

AnudduhMom

Consolation, again, I am with you.

I am naive enough to be shocked. This was going to be our moment to show the world that Mainers can't be swayed by the h8-filled, scare-mongering, lying campaigns run by pressure groups "from away". Turns out that some of them could be influenced by that kind of garbage.

I am really sad about this. This was going to be a positive move towards acceptance and equality for our gay brothers and sisters and their families.



(but somehow I think this will come up again. This will not go away. It's time.)

rds248

Don't feel so bad about Maine. California voted down gay marriage as well. And the President does not support it. You must be ashamed of him as well.
I think most Americans would support civil unions that provide equal benefits and rights to these couples. Just don't call it marriage. Maybe that's a compromise that gay rights groups are not willing to accept. If not then we are going to see this happen again. A majority of Americans are not going to vote to legalize gay marriage. That's the reality. I doubt there's a single state where it could pass by popular vote. The states that have legalized gay marriage have all done so by law approved by legislature or judges, not by popular vote.

With regard to NJ, this election was a direct rebuke to Obama. He came three times to campaign for Corzine, and in my opinion that pushed the independents to vote for Christie. Christie was a VERY weak candidate, but he won because of strong anti-Corzine sentiment and the desperate need for a pro-business candidate in the state. Corzine has spent four years doing nothing but cow-towing to the unions and passing legislation that made it more difficult for businesses to thrive here. He passed a big new entitlement program, the Family Leave Act, which increases costs for businesses and workers... a very bad idea during a recession. We have the highest taxes in the entire country...and....

This is why Corzine is out. You would think a guy that ran Goldman Sachs would be pro-business. But no.


And the funeral for the Republican party seems to have been a bit premature.
I think we will see more of what we saw yesterday in 2010.

Cuse0507

The majority of Americans feel the same way I do-that's why gay marriage has been voted down in all 32 states that it has been put on the ballot so far.

lockn

The result in Maine closely matches PPP's poll. They were the only pollster to robocall. In California, SurveyUSA were automated and were also the only pollster to ever show prop 8 winning. People are lying to live operators. IMO this is a real example of the Bradley Effect (which no longer affects black candidates as Obama proved last year).

Take a look at some crosstabs. People age 18-27 are more than twice as likely to support gay marriage as people 65+. It's just a matter of time. Civil rights aren't like taxes - people don't suddenly start hating gays when they grow up.

poetgrl

I don't actually even know anyone who opposes the concept of legal gay unions or thinks it would be "bad" for America, or whatnot. But, I think (though personally I don't care WHAT they call it), gays and lesbians would have a better shot of getting equal spousal rights if they would just call it something else. I know that might not feel like what they are going for, but the issues are concrete and simply calling it something else would allow for the inheritance, family hospital visits, family rights, spousal rights issues which are the crux of the matter in terms of civil equality. It really seems barbaric to deny people the rights these couples are denied simply because of their sexual preferences. Very unamerican, imho.

Consolation

The logic behind the idea that sharing a prejudice with "the majority" somehow makes it right escapes me.

One can only hope.

poetgrl, I agree. And in fact I strongly feel that the government ought to get out of the "marriage" business completely, for everyone. I'd like to see a situation where the legal system recognized "civil unions" ONLY, and if you want to get "married" you could go to the religious body of your choice and do so, according to their rules. But a friend who was active in this campaign (he's been with his HUSBAND GODDAMMIT for 34 years!) explained to me that for one thing the "marriage" language is embedded in the laws, and giving civil unions equality would involve changing our state laws in something like 500 places alone. And people do have an emotional attachment to being "married."

ELY

"With regard to NJ, this election was a direct rebuke to Obama. " I don't see this, rds. As you outlined nicely in your post #18 Corzine is out due to the many problems in New Jersey. This had everything to do with NJ and little to do with the president.

poetgrl

But, I think it is the word "marriage" that causes problems....not the concept

zoosermom

Consolation, I'm so sorry. I thought of you immediately when I heard the news from Maine. I have no comfort to offer you, but please know that many on the right share your view that marriage should be between consenting adults, whether gay or straight, and will continue working until that goal is achieved.

romanigypsyeyes

Because in America, the will of the many outweighs the rights of a few. That's why slavery is still legal, 12 year olds still work 18 hour days, women can't vote, whites can't marry blacks, we still have segregated facilities by law, etc. Oh wait...

No one has the right to discriminate based on gender or sexuality, marriage is no different. The VAST majority of citizens were against interracial marriage, but now one is seen as a backwards racist if they are against inerracial marriage. My only hope is that my children never have to deal with this discrimination.

zoosermom

That's just a little wishful thinking. The administration was much too invested in that particular race for the loss to not be a repudiation of his policies. Although I do think he is personally popular in New Jersey, the combo of Obama/Reid/Pelosi was jut too much for the people of New Jersey to swallow, and Corzine worked very hard to portray himself as one of them.

lockn

Governor/President Democratic vote share comparison.
Better start worrying, Obama!

ELY

Zooser, Sometimes its as simple as "the other side" having a more compelling case--i.e. Rio & the Olympics. I just don't see every decision as reflecting back upon the president. "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar . . ."

zoosermom

That would be the case ELY, if the president hadn't made the NJ race about him. But he did and these were his consequences. All his.