ELY

I knew that post would rattle a few cages!!
(#28)

MiamiDAP

"But the ideals each represents are engaged in a battle for the American soul" -
You mean that there is a real chance that American people would love to welcome communism in this country? Well, people deserve their wishes ....including the other 50% of population, since we could not stand up for our beliefs will go down the drain together.

BigG

Miami,

Please re-phrase your previous posts last line.

One criticism of democracy,whether implemened in a capitalist, socialist, or mixed society, is the so-called "tyranny of the majority".

That is why the Founding Fathers meant the U.S. to be a "federal" type organization.

MiamiDAP

Founding Fathers were here because they escaped what they considered tyranny in Europe. They did not mean for their people to build a tyranny out of free society. Communism is tyranny at its extreme, no other system has killed and oppressed more people. Communism is where current leaders wants us to be. I can wright many pages of real life comparisons, not any kind of theoretical points that many discussions here are involved. But it is completely futile and useless. There are others who do it for living and about 50% of americans think about them as liers. If people wants to keep their heads in sand eyes shut and ears plugged, nobody can do anything about it.

BigG

MiamiDAP,

No.

Most of the Founding Fathers were here because their ancestors were looking for land and/or money , pure and simple. During most of Colonial history, most of the colonists were proud of being subjects of the English King.

Revolutionary Era scholarship got started in American universities shortly after the Civil War. There was a tendency to downplay the role of Virginia in the founding of our nation as it had seceeded. Virginia was always a commercial colony. At the time of the Revolution it was VIRGINIA and the 12 colonies. Look at the first Presidents.

King George stomped all over 150 years of legislative precedent in the colonies. That is why they rebelled.

"Fleeing tyranny in Europe" was an after the fact rationalization.

America has always been about MONEY. Up until recently we were very good at it.

poetgrl

Well, a lot of them were second sons and bastards, to be honest.

(sorry, couldn't resist, AND it's true.)

busdriver11

So that's it....as Americans we've always just been about greed, selfishness, the evil pursuit of profit.

And here I had always thought it had something to do with freedom to practice religious beliefs, escaping persecution, a chance to make a new life in the new world, to do better for their children. Now I know that it is merely typical American greed.

Sorry, can't resist the snide comment.

BigG

Escaping persecution etc. are nobel and were the reasons some few came here. But mostly it was (and is!) money.

Unbridled greed is bad. Properly regulated and managed greed is good. Good old Uncle Sam tells everyone who can make money to go out and do so and then send him half.
The communists really missed the point. In a capitalist state the government is the de facto, 50% owner of almost everything and doesn't need to go to the trouble of running everythng (except for a few regulations to make folks "play nice").

MiamiDAP

That is how most immigrants got here by "Fleeing tyranny in Europe" and everywhere else even as recent as 1980s. Money were very secondary consideration. Just talk to them, instead of reading books and making assumptions. I know it first hand and nobody can convince me otherwise. The same conviction stands about current direction of the US, very very bad course, most people here do not even come close to imagine how bad it is, including all those who make their living by predicting bad future here (unless it is stopped, but it is getting to be too late to be stopped).

bulletandpima

I think Miami has an excellent point, and let's be real the fall of the Berlin Wall was not monetarily motivated as much as it was about Freedom from oppression.