LogicWarrior

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Iraq!

Cuse0507

No, not Iraq, Afghanistan.

And if our true objective in WWII was to punish Austria, we never would have invaded from the north (ie Normandy).

BigG

I think it is in the evil dictator's handbook not to allow rival power centers to develop in one's own territory.

Afghanistan, with no strong central authority and the complicity of the nominal rulers, the Taliban, was perfect for Al-Qaeda's purposes.

coureur

Having grown up in a military family, my heart aches for the families too. Given how the military is positively drenched in the culture of supporting and keeping faith with your fellow soldiers, I always find it astonishing when one of the these guys violates that so flagrantly. But the thing that is doubly astonishing about this case is that it was an *officer* for crying out loud. How could you get to be a major and then turn on and murder your fellow fighting men?

TutuTaxi

^^ He was a major because he was a physician.

AnudduhMom

bulletandpima, I know you meant well in post #289, but I don't like that form of thought control, as in "you can't be for the troops but against the war". You can be for or against anything you want to be, it is still a free country last time I checked. I find it entirely consistent to support the troops by not wishing them to go lose their lives or limbs in a pointless war (WMD? Remember that? And Osama Bin Liner still at large?)

That said:
My husband is currently in Iraq. Okay? He is doing what he's supposed to do for this country, but I for one am very VERY happy that people are speaking against this war.

You don't get to tell me how to think or feel. Thanks.

ELY

I haven't watched any news coverage yet this a.m. but I'm hoping there has been a turn-around and we (here on CC too!) can now begin to focus on the lives lost in this tragedy.

As I wrote back on Post #135:

"I'm hoping our focus (and the media's) can now switch to the victims, however, and not the shooter. I remember that the media and officials did a good job of switching this fixation with the VTech massacre. (I had go to Google to be reminded of Cho's name). One lesson learned by Columbine was not to dwell upon the perpetrators of such crimes which only serves to "glorify" & make infamous their names. "

An event like this one brings out the worst & the best of our country. I'm hoping our country is ready to concentrate on what is truely important--supporting the many families reeling from this senseless tragedy.

With trepidation, I'm going to turn on the news . . .

jazzymom

Agreed. Thanks for posting.

Pizzagirl

Thank you, anudduhmom (and thank your husband too).

coureur

>>He was a major because he was a physician. <<

No, being a physician will earn you the rank of captain. To be a major you have to get promoted at some point. Nobody starts out as a major. You have to show at least some dedication to your job in the military to achieve that.

purpleflurp

Anuddahmom:

Thank you for your post. I also think that you can be against a war but for the troops. There was a poster who used to post on the poli forum frequently, and he always claimed that he was against the war, so he was (proudly) against the troops. That always made me wince (and question his humanity).

Many people have duties that are associated with their careers that are unsavory. I'm quite certain that the Army physicians who are working very hard to save Hasan's life have some emotional conflicts about it that they do not let interfere with their jobs.

I think it is impressive that your husband proudly serves his country, even as you recognize (like many of us) that this war is problematic on many levels. I have a lot of respect for both your husband and you.

nbachris2788

Secularism needs to put the boot down on Islam, just like it has done to Christianity over recent history.

Unfortunately, some Christians think that Islam's problems means that Christianity is the answer. Not even close. Christianity reared its ugly head over the past couple of centuries, which is why it has been completely neutered in the advanced European nations and is losing ground among the intelligent and educated in America. Islam needs to go through a similar process of secularization. And conservative Christians need to stay out of it.

It's no use defending the current state of Islam. Liberals only do it because we're sick and tired of some Christians trying to turn this into some kind of holy victory for them. No. Secularism is the ultimate solution and winner in the end. Replacing jihadists with crusaders is not going to solve anything.

Cuse0507

^^

Respond to Islamic fundamentalism by attacking Christians. Somehow, I'm not surprised.

nbachris2788

Considering that Christians in the form of the Bush administration and Blackwater have fully engaged in a kind of holy war, I'm not going on a limb here.

Kei-o-lei

Purpleflurp said: "This is really harsh. Geeps is as entitled to an opinion as anyone else, and his opinion is well-supported by the evidence thus far"

Sorry for my strong reaction. Sure, everybody can have an opinion, and we can go down that road, I guess (e.g. so then don't I also have a right to my opinion that geeps doesn't know what he's talking about?) One question for purpleflurp: when geeps20 said "It amazes me how so many libs really hate America..you can sense it in many posts here . . . " do you really find that what I said was less respectful than the treasonous accusation geeps heaped on his "fellow" CCers?

What I was trying to do was point out that geeps has a set of information available as to why the perp murdered. These included that he was a psychiatrist who treated others for PTSD, and that's a heavy load; it included his impending deployment overseas; it included negative comments about his religion by other soldiers. Yet geeps went to the religion as a cause to the exclusion of other explanations. Why? Well, it wasn't because he reasoned that upon reflection those other explanations had less explanatory power. Geeps20 -because of his prejudice - saw quickly all he needed to know to make up his mind. Thinking about other causes? Well, one advantage of stereotypes is that the obviate the need for thinking things through.

People who have stereotypes always have reasons why what they are saying is true, and those reasons generally contain some truth. Go back over historical wartime propaganda . . . the really were "bloodthirsty Huns" . . .and there really were "savage Comanches" . . . and "cruelJapanese" . . . but we made this into an indictment of a whole people, whihc is why it was OK for us to round up all Japanese Americans on the west coast. Geeps' "it certainly matters that he was a Muslim, it was the reason he murdered 11 people" fits right onto wartime stereotypes. It wasn't a reasoned argument that looked at other causes, and we all know that geeps has no specific information at all about what was going on in that perp's mind . . . all he has is what's reported (how's the accuracy there . . . remember, it included that the perp was dead?) but he was able to project his own stereotypes into the situation. "We see the world as we are, not as it is" . . . and I called geeps out for that.

Is it true that there are radical extremist Muslim? Of course. It is true that connections betweemn those extremists movements and the perp need to be looked at? Of course. Does that mean that every Muslim now is automatically suspect? Not in my country you don't.

Today's WSJ has an interesting article about the tragedy: the victims and their aspirations that were tragically cut short; the many lives that were ruined by this criminals' actions; it also discusses how the authorities are investigating what role the perp's religion may have played in his action and discussed the dilemma the armed forces have dealing with attitudes like geeps' - "he was Muslim; that's why he did it" - and how that affects the loyal Muslim members currently serving in the armed forces. The article is well worth reading, and proposes a way of doing inquiry in this case that doesn't jump to the easy stereotype of blaming a religion for the killings.

Kei