dstark

Over 10 years. That is how much American consumers would save over 10 years adapting those health care systems.

And everybody would be covered. No pre-conditions. No bankrupcies caused by health problems.

Adapting Englands's, Japan's or Germany's would result in savings between $5 and $10 trillion.

But America can't do that.

Because America is the greatest. American consumers like to throw money down the toilet. Because America is the greatest.

FRONTLINE: sick around the world: five countries: health care systems -- the four basic models | PBS

FRONTLINE: sick around the world: watch the full program | PBS

"These four models should be fairly easy for Americans to understand because we have elements of all of them in our fragmented national health care apparatus. When it comes to treating veterans, we're Britain or Cuba. For Americans over the age of 65 on Medicare, we're Canada. For working Americans who get insurance on the job, we're Germany.

For the 15 percent of the population who have no health insurance, the United States is Cambodia or Burkina Faso or rural India, with access to a doctor available if you can pay the bill out-of-pocket at the time of treatment or if you're sick enough to be admitted to the emergency ward at the public hospital.

The United States is unlike every other country because it maintains so many separate systems for separate classes of people. All the other countries have settled on one model for everybody. This is much simpler than the U.S. system; it's fairer and cheaper, too."

simba

But dstark, none of the models will work here. Few weeks ago Andy Rooney summed it up nicely. Nothing will work here because of GREED. Greed on the part of everyone involved- we the consumers, the doctors, the insurance companies, the hospitals, the drug companies, the lawyers, medical supply industry and the politicians.

He gave example of his recent out-patient surgery. His insurance was billed $9,000. He said after the surgery a doctor came asked him how was he, chit-chatted for few mins. Told Andy he liked his work. Did not even touch him, but he billed $250 to the insurance. Andy was wondering how much he had charged if the dr. did not like his work.

BCEagle91

The Singaporean system is arguably the most efficient healthcare system in the world. Why not give that a shot. I've been there and have had to use it. My relatives have used it. It's shockingly inexpensive.

Mr Payne

dstark, who gets cuts out? Who makes less money? Chopping 40% off our healthcare expenditures means someone is going to get burned really bad. Who is it?

BCEagle91

> who gets cuts out? Who makes less money? Chopping 40% off our healthcare
> expenditures means someone is going to get burned really bad. Who is it?

Must be those people in the departments of waste, fraud and abuse that all politicians say that they will get rid of.

romanigypsyeyes

Maybe that... ?

LogicWarrior

why do you hate america?

dstark

Simba, are Americans more greedy than people in other countries?

It would work here if it was tried here.

Instead, consumers pay $500 bilion to a trillion dollars too much every year.
Such a deal.

And people are ranting and raving because of a trillion dollar cost over ten years in a new health care proposal.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

Actually, that is not funny.

There are ways to distribute health care cheaper. Ways that are being done..all over the world. It's not a fiction. Being done right now. Really happening. But not here. Because America is the greatest.

It takes a leader to get health care changed. And a great leader to get it changed drastically over the nonsense coming from the various self-interests you mentioned. The conservatives screwed up the economy. And this will be the democrats failing. The democrats have the votes and they aren't going to change things enough. Barney Frank's fault again.

simba

"Simba, are Americans more greedy than people in other countries?"

I didn't say that Andy Rooney said that, although I share his views. Let me pose this question to you. Don't you think many of the uninsured want to shift their cost to others? Many of them are jealous of people who work for company who give them insurance. Many of the uninsured are uninsured by choice. They may be young, healthy, self employed and frankly they wanted to save money when things were going well. My total health insurance cost is about $18 K/yr - it is part of the same compensation pie. The subsidy my employer provides is a non taxable imputed income. How many young, healthy self employed would like to cough up that amount?

"It takes a leader to get health care changed. And a great leader to get it changed drastically over the nonsense coming from the various self-interests you mentioned. The conservatives screwed up the economy. And this will be the democrats failing. The democrats have the votes and they aren't going to change things enough. Barney Frank's fault again."

That I agree. Let us not forget that Pelosi woman.

Let me share my recent personal experience. Both me and wife unit went for nuclear cardio test. It did not cost me a dime, but I am sure my insurance will pay a bundle. The dr. saw us after the test, asked us couple of questions and took blood pressure. I thought he would see us again after the battery of test results came back. Guess what, I was wrong. If we want to see him again he would charge us full office visit. If we have questions, his nurse would answer them. It really made me very very mad. Here is this guy who made thousands off me even charged me 12 bucks for parking and he does not even want to discuss the results in person, he want to make more and more money.

dstark

Simba, I don't know what to make of your personal story. I took a nuclear cardio test and afterward I went back to the doctor and he charged me. And I was fine. Could have been done over the phone. I didn't have to go back. But the doctor wanted me to and I figured it was a way for the doctor to make more money, and I want him to be my doctor so..........


I'm sure some people want something for nothing, or a "deal". Most people probably. Who doesn't like a deal?

But so what?

The uninsured are going to pay if they can afford it, and if they can't afford it, society is going to pay because that is the humane thing to do.

And society is going to pay more than $500 billion more than necessary every year. MAYBE ONE TRILION DOLLARS A YEAR. I don't know. That's a lot of money. That's a nice redistribution of wealth. From the many to the few. But that's ok I guess because taxes aren't involved. Redistributing wealth in the private sector sems to be ok. Spending an extra $500 bilion, or a trillion dollars a year in the private sector seems to be ok too.

It's not ok.

As far as Nancy Pelosi goes...she has balls. If it was up to her, we would have a nationalized health care system. And it would be cheaper than the system we are going to get. We're going to get a more expensive system because we are Americans and we are suckers.

sueinphilly

my insurance company paid my dermatologist $450 to freeze some warts with liquid nitrogren. I spent 15 minutes with a physicians assistant for this procedure. My copay was $30 (this will be $35 in 2010).

I had a CT scan of my pelvis. My out of pocket was zero, but my insurance company paid over $3000 for this 15 minute procedure.

I have Federal Blue Cross (the lower of the 2 options), this is what is considered one of the 'cadillac health plans' for which I pay nearly 3K in premiums and another $600 for dental insurance and $125 for vision and another $1500 in copays and out of pocket costs.

My colonoscopy cost ME $150 (will be $175 next year)

I can afford this on a salary of 72K, but someone making 40k would have a tough time with out of pocket costs of nearly 5K in premiums, copays, etc....

simba

dstark: remember we are talking about GREED.

dstark

Yes. You're right.

Mr Payne

Does anyone know the answer to post #4? If we reduced healthcare spending from 17% of GDP to 12% of GDP A bunch of people of either lose their jobs or make way less money. Who are those people?

tom1944

Mr Payne- it most likely a varied group of people all along the process. There will also be a group that end up making money because they will develop something that the new system needs.