Mr.B

How much overlap is there between the ownership of manufacturing companies that complain about health care costs and the ownership of the companies that drive the costs up?

What percentage of the wealthiest people own major shares of the manufacturing corporations and the drug and insurance corporations.

hazmat

If they own GM stock they got rid of it and "they" don't drive GM cars in any great number.......Out of curiosity are you being affected by the new compromise w/ UAW? GM is the largest private consumer of health care so it will not make things too happy when they consumer has to dole out cash for service.....the docs aren't gonna be too happy.

fundingfather

While probably painful for the GM worker, they are finally coming in line with most of the rest of the US working population in terms of having to contribute to their own health care costs. As tax payers, we need to applaud any move that GM can do to remain solvent. If they end up going the way of some of the airlines, the resulting costs to the country in terms of supporting GM's retirement debt would be enormous.

hazmat

So you think that GM will not go the way of US Steel and others?? Are you willing to pay more for a GM product to support their contribution to the US economy......will the Chinese be willing to be the new market for GM???

fundingfather

a) I hope not b) no - that's why I hope they are successful in getting their cost structure down. They and their US counterparts, Ford and Chrysler need to somehow learn from their Japanese competition how to get it right with respect to quality and customer service c) I saw a report on TV that indicates the Chinese view GM cars as the ultimate in style and luxury, so perhaps

emeraldkity4

Gm seems to have the worst r&d depts
producing huge trucks when more people are becming fuel conscous.
I am obviously not an economist- but I think the market shows that this company isn't working
their suppliers are going bankrupt....who's next?
1/3 of their sale are to employees, relatives or fleet rental buyers.
Sounds like perhaps they should get into one of those pyramid sale schemes.

hazmat

I guess I don't wish GM to vanish but they sure have ridden their horse into the dust.......how could they have been sooo short sighted sooo many times? When I look at their history they look like the car w/ nine lives. I cannot imagine a circumstance that would persuade me to buy GM but I am younger and thus didn't ever have the opine that they were quality or desirable. I am wondering if this sympathy/empathy is more of an age related thing???

mini

Wouldn't it be great if they were "cutting employees' health care costs?"

Wouldn't you really rather have a Buick?

hazmat

I notice they haven't mentioned cutting their huge advertising budget.......car ads everywhere. I mean if you cannot push the buyers with the ad dollars then cut some of the ad fat......it cannot possible hurt. What % of the billion dollar loss was attributable to advertising budgets??? General Motors will spend about $300 million next year to tout its move to value pricing.

newmassdad

Health care $$ go into too many pockets for these costs to be driven by one dominant greed factor. However, pockets of these costs are certainly driven by, shall we say, external market factors.

Any one of us who has chased top stock market returns can be contributing to this problem, in theory, but that's how the system works. To the degree that we buy (or sell!), a healthcare fund, for example, we are sending the signal that pursuit of profits is all important. So we pressure the for profit parts of health care to increase profits, often through price increases.

But, the real problem is a classic market failure, in an economic sense. For all to many people, the choice of products/services, the consumption of products/services and the payment for the same are all different. Contrast health care with auto repair. Car repairs? We ask, because we pay out of our own pockets (and it is interesting to note that, in segments of auto repair where we don't pay ourselves, like collision repair and in some cases glass repair, we have some of the same problems as in health care...)

Anyway, GM's problem, IMHO, is not greedy shareholders. Rather, GM and other legacy manufacturing companies are paying the price for generous labor settlements in years past - settlements with a long liability tail that could not be anticipated.

But GM is far from alone. The health care disease will hit all of us soon. Indirectly, each of us with job related health insurance is already paying. A company that shells out $10,000 per year per employee for family hc coverage is spending real money, cash that does not go into pay increases etc.

IMHO, anyone who is not in the gilded executive class (you know who you are - the ones who have taxable benefits that are not ERISA qualified, first dollar health care for example...) should watch one's back side. Counting on a company provided health care plan when you retire? Right. Good luck.

This is not just a GM problem.

emeraldkity4

I actually think too much is covered.
Well baby care is covered- emergency room visits are fairly low, while doctors are not covered to the point that they would like to be, it is still a lot of money.
catastophic care I think we need coverage for.
But routine health care to come out of our pocket for middle and above workers would make us take better care of our selves and not expect things like antibiotics for a cold

bluebayou

GM has the exact same problem as the airline industry (and federal government), in that it has too few workers to support the non-workers; in GM's case, retirees, the federal government has to deal with Social Security and Medicare on a grand scale.

The health care issue has been long known by actuarial folks and anyone who cares to dig thru demographic tables -- healthcare's been increasing at a double digit rate, annually, for decades. But, for the sake of labor peace, GM continued on its merry way and churned out high profit margin trucks and SUVs. But, now that cost of gas has eliminated thier profitable market.....

mini

The big problem is that all those auto workers stopped smoking (and live too long), and male African-American life expectancy (and with it, medical costs) have been rising.

Soon, most of cars will be coming from China, and we won't have anything to worry about.

Mr.B

I was wondering if there are a handful of stock owners who have major shares in the health care industry and the manufacturing sector...and if they weren't profiteering from this situation somehow.

hazmat

I don't see your logic. I would think that "free" healthcare versus co-pay healthcare would mean that those folks who own healthcare are gonna see less money outta this arrangement. Are you saying they will see fewer patients but make more money? I can see that they would have fewer billable hours because patients won't be coming in as frequently. Maybe you can help me see what you see.