northeastmom

Posts 29 and 30 just crack me up!

poetgrl

Okay: feedback like you are my kid, not my peer:

The problem isn't the dinner. So, if you address the dinner, then what will you do the next time?

The problem is that you feel taken for granted and taken advantage of.

So, you can say something about the dinner, but you will still have to change the way you are interacting with her in order to not over extend yourself on her behalf. She is not the type to carry her gratitude with her for things and you will have to make future choices, in terms of giving with her in terms of: if she never thanks me for this, properly, do I still want to do it?

Those are my unedited thoughts. ymmv, as we say.

Delicate Arch

Funny, in our circle if one person invites a bunch of people to dinner for his/her spouse's b-day, the person setting up the party pays for everyone. We figure it is like throwing a party at one's home without all the clean-up. So, if I were invited for a birthday dinner I wouldn't expect to pay whether I was promised a free meal or not. I guess you need to know your group norms.

northeastmom

Sounds spot on to me.

I have been through this with same friend that I described earlier. When we go out as couples they are also about 15-20 minutes late. My DH has joked about it with them a few times. After a couple of jokes about it, when I met her for lunch she showed up ONE HOUR early and sat a table for this length of time without being kicked out (it was a quiet time for the restaurant as they do their main business for dinner). I asked why she came an hour early and she said she just did, not sure why. Since then so far she has been on time.

jym626

Thanks again everyone. We all have our high maintenance friends, eh?

Yes, this friend will do it again, And again. And I have set firmer boundaries on some of her behavior (eg saying NO to the last two times she tried to invite herself in on plans we had with others) and also NO to her original expectation that she'd stay with us again for several days while their floors were being redone. She asked me to handle getting the theater tickets (she was "too busy") and said she'd send me a check, but now that I reminded her she wants to pay me when we go. OK, but if she bails on me or asks me to find someone else I will either drag my poor H to a "girls show" or ask her to pay me for her ticket as we'd agreed. Next time, if there is one, I will ask her to order the tix (we could only get seats together if ordered at the same time). Or if she cancels on me and it ever comes up again I will remind her that she has done this to me twice.

She has done nice things for me, and I am appreciative of that, but she is very myopic when it comse to seeing how she comes across to others. She calls it being "cueless and clueless", but I dont know that she sees it in herself.

deb922

I think we all have friends like this. Unless we are this friend and then we wouldn't recognize it.

I have a relative who my D says was the mean girl in HS. She is just so clueless how her behavior affects other people. She is so oblivious about how she hurts people and now her children affect the same behavior. I am so appalled sometimes.

But she is a nice person in her way. I accept that but I also am the person that I am. I am kind and generous and even if someone else is not, it's just who I am.

worknprogress2

Well, if you decide to talk to your friend at the theatre/dinner girl outing, I say we start a pool. My bet is that she offers to pay for THAT little dinner in lieu of the other, couples, dinner.

jym626

worknprogress,
I was planning to bring it up AFTER dinner

jym626

If she remembers (is reminded) that she offered to pay, we may end up at a place with a coupon. If she anticipates its for her DH's birthday, she may want to pick a nicer place.....

somemom

It sounds like the thought of dinner is making you queasy!

I hate the whole who pays what for dinner, I am that person who minimizing my meal costs, about 20 years ago a very close friend often did the wine, apps, dessert, let's split the bill routine, and they were better off financially than I was. It did not take too long before I just stopped doing dinner with them. Ironically, she still owes me several hundred dollars for cash that I loaned her. There were some half-hearted attempts, but she never actually repaid me.

I guess it is time to get a bit self-protective with her, as you said in #35. Post #28 about clarifying the night before in an effort to be sensitive to couple #3 seems like a good middle ground.

Post #29/30 crack me up, two therapists asking each other how that makes you feel

In my circle if girlfriends take out the birthday girl for lunch, the friends pay; if the couple arrange the dinner, the couple pays or it's dutch treat.

nysmile

This is such an interesting thread.

If I were inviting friends out to a Birthday dinner for my husband, I wouldn't expect anyone to chip in for the meal. I would consider it as a birthday party for my husband and would pay the entire bill myself. If I were having the birthday dinner at my house, I wouldn't go around the room collecting money from my guests. At least that's how I look at it.

If I called my female friends to arrange a birthday lunch or dinner for another female friend, I would say something like---"I thought it would be nice if WE take her out for her birthday. What do you think?". In this case, we would simply divide the bill (excluding the birthday girl).

Your case isn't as clear cut. You're wondering if this is a birthday celebration dinner or a combined birthday celebration and thank you celebration.

jym626, I guess you have to figure out how much you value this friendship. Is it strong enough that you can overlook being irked every time she pulls this kind of stuff?
You know she is not going to change her behavior in the future. You could let the friendship fizzle out quietly or step up and tell her exactly how you feel.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

This thread is too funny. I think we all have that one cheap friend who tries to get out of paying their fair share. If I remember correctly, there was a Two and a Half Men episode (the original version) where Allen would run to the bathroom everytime the dinner bill came to the table. Charlie finally realized the pattern and decided to follow Allen into the bathroom. It was a funny episode.

northeastmom

^^I think that is a clear POV and I agree with the advice.

SlitheyTove

A close relative tried this with us. They'd sold their house (near us), but were postponing moving to their new house in another city for a few months so their elementary-aged children could finish the school semester. This was a job-related move, and I knew that the relative's employer would pay for interim housing in our city.

So my relative calls, and asks if the four of them can stay with the four of us. For three months. This was a totally insane idea, and my relative knew it. We've got totally different lifestyles. Totally different tastes in food. One (very small!) spare bedroom. Another larger spare bedroom that's in constant use as an in-home office. They're TV fiends--we've got one TV, no cable. Etc, etc, etc. For a week, sure. For two weeks in a pinch, we'd manage. But three months? I was (and still am!) gobsmacked that they even considered it. There would have been murder done. But hey, they would've been able to pocket a few thousand bucks.

Emaheevul07

They recently had a scenario like this on the radio show I listen to in the morning. They have a therapist come in to give advice. He said that sometimes we have a tendancy to try and put our expectations of who a person should be onto that person... and then we are continually frustrated when that person is who they are and not who we want them to be. We can't change who a person is, but we can take our expectations out of the equation and deal with the consequences so the cycle of frustration and hurt doesn't continue. Your friend knows who she is, and you know every time she does this that it isn't just a fluke-- this is who she is, and she is telling you that over and over again and you are ignoring it and continuing to expect more from her than she is willing to give. I think you either need to accept the person she is, and continue to deal with these kinds of things-- which maybe the friendship is worth, maybe it isn't--, or distance yourself from the friendship. Since the birthday dinner is now an established plan, if it were me I'd grin and bear it to avoid things turning ugly, but maybe make myself a little less available after that. Suddenly become very busy with a new hobby. No need to burn any bridges, but you don't deserve to be taken advantage of and it doesn't seem like your friend has any intention of changing. You are a dog chasing its tail continuing to expect better from her.

NewHope33

Jym - Just when you've shed one set of uncaring compatriots (ie., the crowd that bought the house), along comes another set. No, it's not your fault. Yes, you deserve better. But on to real life ....

The advice to "wait and see" is well-intended, but it's obvious you won't be enjoying the night out while "waiting" to see if your friend offers to pay the dinner bill. Best case? Your friend doesn't cancel out of the show, and while you two are waiting to go in the friend says something along the lines of "You know, I've been thinking about the dinner. That was supposed to be a thank you for your generosity. Since I can't change my H's birthday, let's plan a different date for the Thank You Dinner ... and let's make it something REALLY special."

Chances of that happening, given your friend's history? Um, I take the Fifth on that. Since you won't enjoy the dinner due to angst over this "I'll party, you pay" attitude, I suggest cancelling out. If asked why, respond honestly ... "Something private's come up."