missypie

A lot is being made of the fact that Gabby Douglas left home at age 14 to move to Iowa to be coached by Chow, to chase her Olympic dreams. It obviously worked out great for her, but what it if hadn't? Was it Chow's responsiblity to be honest to her and her family and turn her down if he knew she didn't have the stuff? Coaches need to make a living.

Gabby competed level 4 in 1st grade, was a level 7 in 3rd grade and Elite in 6th grade. In contrast, the "star" at D's old gym was a level 7 in 5th grade and in 10th grade is a level 10. If the "star's" goal is to compete in college, she can still do it...but if her ambition was "London 2012", people in the know would have been able to tell back in 2008 that she would never come close to getting there.

Should parents let their child be a music major at some college that will take just anyone, even if they perceive a lack of talent? If your whole family is 5' at the tallest, do you keep paying for expensive select volleyball or basketball for your kid?

Just interesting to ponder.

sewhappy

I think this is a really interesting question. I was chatting with friends the other day and it emerged in our conversation that we were all uncomfortable with some Olympic sports, such as gymnastics, that seem to place a huge premium on youth and physical danger. Diving came up. To some extent swimming. We all agreed we preferred watching the sports with the more mature athletes competing in a sports in which there is not a huge injury risk.

I admire the Olympic gymnasts. They amaze me. But I can't bring myself to watch them for very long. Their oddly arrested bodies. The pounding of their joints on the beam and in floor ex. The dangers on the parallels. They psychological stress at such young ages.

I just can't stomach it.

Probably why my kids aren't great athletes.

So even if one of my kids really had the sports passion to go for it, I probably would not have been the type of parent to support such a goal. I'd tell them to chill and go read a book.

zoosermom

Interesting timing on this question. I've been thinking about this in the context of a friend and her son. He is now almost 14, at his Bar Mitzvah last year, you would have thought he was about 10 because he is very tiny. His mom is 5'2 and his dad is 5'3. No tall relatives on either side. he has played football for years, mostly flag football, but tackle this year in a youth league. We live in an area that is baseball crazy and football is an also-ran sport, so not a huge amount of competition or opportunity. He is going to high school in the fall and will be on the JV team (everyone is accepted) and they have structured their entire lives for the assumption that this kid is going to get a full scholarship to college. He is not physically suited to be a great football player, and we are not in an area where there is a pipeline for that with the right preparation and connections. He is a great kid, but he will not get a full scholarship for football. They allow him to focus less on his academics and other things to pursue football, but it's a pipedream. We've had one kid in recent years get a "ta da" football scholarship, and he was 6'4 and over 200 pounds in high school and had incredible speed. He is something of a local celebrity because what he accomplished is so rare.

My son is the same age. We're at the point of either accelerating his music preparation or considering that we're delusional. We've spent a lot of money over the years, but it will need to ramp up now if he's going to continue. He will have a music scholarship to a top prep school and I'm hoping that his experience there will provide clarity.

jym626

Maybe they are related to the late Jack Shapiro?? Jack Shapiro Past Stats, Statistics, History, and Awards - databaseFootball.com

We have a friend whose young (adopted from another country) daughter has been a phenom in diving. They moved to another state to be near her coach.

missypie

It's sometimes quite difficult to get an honest assessment and even then, if it's negative, do you believe the person or not? I read interviews of actors who finally "made it" at age 40....they often talk about all the rejection they received but they just kept trying. Yeah, and for every one of those, there are scores who keep trying and never make it.

We know a guy who was a vocal performance major at a great state U. He's at the level of "good church choir singer." It wasn't until he was almost through the master's program in vocal performance that a faculty member told him that the liklihood of success in opera was slim to none.

zoosermom, I think your responsiblity is to educate yourself on "how good is good" for a musician his age (you have probalby already done this.) My neighbor's D was an excellent pianist...clearly the best at our large public HS. She was good enough to get an audition for a decent conservatory program. But she was nowhere near good enough to get in. The parents found out that other kids her age were already competing in national and even international competitions and that being the best 17 year old pianist in our suburb didn't count for much.

sylvan8798

It seems to me that another problem is that people around the "wonder child" who really don't know much about the sport/music/pursuit will be saying "wow, he/she is great, you should try for the Olympics/equivalent". When in fact the kid may not be all that great compared to the Gabby D's of the world.

We see this with students who have really good grades, etc. as well. "Wow, you'll probably get into Harvard, yada, yada." Differentiating the smart from the uber-smart from the genius isn't easy for most people, who don't have the best reference points.

I think when you get to the point of making a major commitment, it's important to get the advice of experts in the field.

zoosermom

Living in NYC, it's easy to see what the best of the best look like. He's not it! But I'm not sure if he would even want to be. My feeling is that we should continue his lessons (he lucked into a very special, renowned teacher) and give him the best opportunities we can because at least learning music is learning, even if he never does anything but play at his sisters' weddings! My perception (and I could be wrong) is that he would like to continue to study and play music in college and then maybe do things like participate in church or community groups. I don't think he wants to follow the path of a professional musician and don't think he has the right personality for that, but he's only 13, so who knows?

I have a good friend who has been writing plays for decades while working as a paralegal. Everyone always sort of humored him about it but didn't take his writing seriously. He is now 52 and this actual week he is having his first play produced off Broadway and it's getting good reviews.

jaylynn

I'm always worried about kids (or even adults) who want/think/delude themselves about being elite at something. Even if true, it's a long haul.

But a passion, something that makes your heart sing? Then go for it with a realistic eye. Zoosermom, I think your son (and you) know how his career will unfold-- and it's a great one-- to be able to find joy in your music and then bring that joy to others, in whatever venue-- how terrific. Just hearing about it makes me happy.

My daughter is an untrained dancer who progressed quite quickly while on her school's dance team. She'll never be a standout-- but she's a fabulous performer and people can't take their eyes off her. She'll always find a way to dance, in a studio or maybe even her college's team, but she'll not make a career out of it-- and that's okay with her. It makes her so happy, and it keeps her fit, and that's what matters to her (and me).

missypie

Seems like a lot of aspiring dancers, singers, actors and musicians and their parents would benefit from a trip to NYC. A few years ago I took my Ds to NYC and we saw 6 musicals in 4 days. I focussed a lot on the folks with the small parts, in the ensemble...they were truly "triple threats" and it made the think of the kids who cycled through our HS theatre department, getting the leads in the musicals, how everyone told them they were destined for Broadway...and how they didn't have anywhere near the talent that the folks I was seeing on stage had.

musicamusica

This is said in the Music Majors forum over and over again. "If you can see yourself doing anything at all besides music....then you should go do that thing".
But unfortunately we are asking this question to teenagers without fully developed frontal lobes. And, besides the innate talent, the sort of sacrifices and work that are required to be successful are not readily apparent to either parents or the young. Music is relentless.

missypie

I was secretly happy than none of the girls on D's school dance team who graduated with her majored in dance in college...like your D, they were all lovely, fit girls. There was a girl a couple of years ahead of them who is a dance major at directional state U. From one standpoint, a college degree is a college degree and there are jobs she can get just because she has a degree in something. But as for "making it"....super long shot.

zoosermom

My husband jokes about putting the kid on the street to play with his instrument case open as a way to pay for college. Calls that a potential "music scholarship."

We have some staggeringly amazing youth orchestras here. I would bet that the young musicians (of which my kid is not one) are as good at 13 as some college students and even "professional" musicians.

I was at a party the other night with a famous professional ballerina and she was talking about how her daughter loves music and movement, but that it makes the mom exhausted to think of what it would take for her daughter to reach her level of accomplishment.

abasket

Timely thought/subject here as well.

D who is a sophomore in HS has a friend who will be leaving her home school here in Ohio and heading out of state (several states away) to attend a special tennis academy - at age 15! Seems so young to me to be leaving home, family and friends! But she apparently has extreme talent - enough to get a sponsor to pay for the academy and her national rankings are quite good...still hard for this "regular family" to imagine doing to OUR D at age 15!

On the other hand, I have a nephew who is clearly gifted in music - he has had some FANTASTIC music opportunities through his public elementary in NYC. This past school year he had to compete for middle school admission in NYC...fortunately he had many offers - should they choose the school that will push music??? He is actually gifted in other areas - creative writing is one he at this point (freshly age 11 ) is really wanting to focus on and explore ---so, he will continue with his music in afterschool enrichment and some private lessons but will spend his day expanding his gifts in other areas - including nurturing his current interest - creative writing. What will he be in the end? Who knows? But I personally applaud their decision to have the decision kid-driven as well. He has done some amazing things with his music already at age 11, but on a day to day basis, he's just a regular kid walking to the bus stop and participating in EC's suited to his tastes.

So my take - take a hard look at whose dreams are being fulfilled - the child? the coach? the parents???

Mansfield

Its important to try to see your child's talent in an objective way. Many of our talented children are really just big fish in a small pond. My D is a very dedicated runner, marathoner, and triathlete. Her colleagues at work are impressed by her accomplishments and several of them kept asking her if she was going to the Olympics. My D just laughed. Her weekend race results were great water cooler conversations, but they were hardly noticeable on a national level.

cobrat

Regarding aspiring music majors, what I've observed is that those with any sort of talent or those who aspire to that talent tended to avoid colleges which accepted anyone into their music major. With most, if they can't get into a respectable/elite program (i.e. Indiana U, UMich, NEC, Oberlin, etc), the rejection acts as an effective referendum on how they stacked up in the world.

Most would decide to pursue another major while doing music on the side. A minority would mentally say "Nuts! Screw what these idiots think!" and try to develop their musical talent outside the conservatory/music school systems and go from there. Wouldn't surprise me if some great musicians came from the latter group.

As for perceived physical mismatches with a given sport, I did know of a friend's undergrad roommate who was 5'8" and yet, was drafted into the NBA sometime in the mid-late '90s. Keep in mind that this is a sport where I'd be considered far too short for the sport...and I'm nearly 6'.

I'm mixed as I understand most parents' inclination to want a stable secure conventional career for their kids for peace of mind.

However, I also know far too many adults who are extremely miserable...sometimes to the point of requiring therapy because they allowed their parents to discourage them from pursuing their dreams in favor of a "safer" job in fields such as medicine, engineering, pharmacy, law, etc.

I also know of a few 20 something thespians who first tried going the safe route....including one who attended a T-30 university and got a full-time lucrative corporate job, ended up hating it/corporate America, and having enough courage to drop everything to develop themselves in the theatrical community in the NYC area. Her mother's anguished according to her own words, but she feels it's better to try and fail rather than be a miserable older adult who has regrets about never even making an attempt.