kirmum

Momsdream, my advice is not to even look at other schools before an assessment is done. In my experience, most bright kids who do not learn evenly with the others have a learning difference. Only understanding what that difference is will enable you to choose the right learning environment.

My son, now a junior in a highly competitive bioengineering program, has LDs. The lables mean nothng or I would list names. Bottom line for teaching him is that he is a visual learner. When we got a handle on that he was on his way. It was not always easy. The first AP was torture. He did the first 2 years of college at a cc so that we could continue with tutorials and support. He has done so well and his gifts in other areas amaze me.

All this to say that when you have a bright, eager child who is not learning conventionally, you'll see that unconventional methods will work. You just need to find the ones right for your daughter.

backhandgrip

I was wondering Momsdream, do you have her in a private school (like the one your son went to)? You are bound to have many over achievers there if you do and that means stiff competition for her.Could be stressful. Another thought is all those terrific Charter Schools now available, some really have great results. And the sweets, guess you could try to watch her diet. I remember commenting to a friend once that another boy was taking hyperactivity medicine in school and friend said,' have you been in the school right before lunch ? There is a line of about 20 ouside the nurses office for their meds.!' Can you believe it! Hate to see your daughter end up taking medicine or branded with a 'disability' when she may be just a little bit slower in this area. You know?

calmom

Momsdream, since I have one kid who was dyslexic and another who was a precocious early reader, I can assure you that it is not a matter of who "cheated" over the summer. I did everything possible to get my #1 kid to read - I read to him in utero (seriously!) - he was in Montessori from age 2 - the house was full of books and letter blocks & games, I worked & worked with him -- and it just never clicked for him. I wasn't pressuring him either - he loved being read to, all of our "work" was light enough to be fun - I had taken a clue from Montessori to let his level of interest be my guide.

Then after my experience with #1, along comes #2 and all I can think of is - well, I was wrong in thinking I could raise up a little genius by my doting attention - and I put the baby into a family day care home when I returned to work, turning down a coveted spot at the local preschool when she turned 3. She had dolls and music and dance lessons.... but she didn't like being read to, and I figured I wouldn't push. And she's the one who was reading anything she could at age 4 -- I used to have to put books with anything inappropriate for a 4 year old out of reach lest she get her hands on it.

There were very clear differences in the way these two kids responded to words in print. There are also, to this day, very major differences in the way these two extremely smart kids think.

But my point is that while I agree that the way reading is taught in schools tends to be poor, there are some very bright kids who just aren't ready to read at age 6 ... and no amount of teaching is going to help. It's all a matter of brain development and neural connections .. until the child is ready, they just end up with a lot of information crammed into their head with no ability to connect it all up. More information can just lead to more confusion.

Also, I just want to note that a kid who can sound out CAT but not recognize the same word 3 lines later does not have a problem with phonics, but one with visual memory for words. If a child seems to be able to read longer and more difficult words but stumbles over the small words, it is more likely an issue with the visual or eidetic memory. If this is the issue, then no amount of teaching phonics will help unless the visual memory issue is also addressed. The kid will simply continue to sound everything out but be unable to recognize familiar words. A lot of early readers (including my daughter) are reading well simply because they have memorized the most frequently used words - the same words that show up on lists of basic sight words.

editrix

Sometimes all it takes is more time or more focus on actually "getting the kid reading." But I sense that Momsdream is concerned that her daughter may be struggling with more than that. (In my own daughter's case, she had already repeated kindergarten, and the more focused reading lessons in first grade weren't starting to click. Something was wrong, and I wish we had gotten the big picture then instead of addressing little pieces of the problem for the next 4 years.)

A good assessment won't label a child unnecessarily--it could just as easily say that the issues are developmental and simply need more time. But if there are genuine learning issues to be addressed, I believe it's better to start early than to leave a child floundering. Kids know when they're not keeping up with their peers on something as fundamental as reading. Unless they're living in complete isolation, even home-schooled kids know--they start going places and playing games where other kids are obviously beginning to read.

jym626

Calmom-
You have done a good job of describing the difference between decoding a word (c-a-t) and encoding a word (writing or reading the word in context). There is a visual memory component to encoding and decoding, but there is still a sound-symbol relationship to word recognition.

Eidetic imagery is typically a term used to describe visual recall without a language component- somewhat like photographic memory. There is also something called word blindness where you cannot read words secondary to a visual problem. At any rate, there are a combination of lexical and phonological components to reading, and a good eval can help hone in on the issues for each individual child.

An evaluation can also determine if a child is reading on a normal developmental level, which would certainly be reassuring. In that case, additional exposure through reading, with implementation of basic reading strategies may improve reading fluency. But, I'm with Kirmum and Editrix. If a bright child is showing significant discrepancies in performance, and their performance is not on par with their potential, a further evaluation is in order. It is best to assess not only the childs weaknesses, but also a child's strengths, so that the best type of intervention can be identified, anchoring on the child's strengths. There are several reading programs used (Ornton-Gillingham, Lindamood- Bell, Wilson, etc) that have slightly different approaches. Good luck- and keep us posted.

bluealien01

"My 14 yr old daughter at the beginning of 3rd gd ( she was 8) didn't know letter sounds and for all purposes could not read.
Because of her anxiety- she had been in a very small private school K-2 where she did well, except still was not making progress in reading and this really concerned me. I couldn't afford to pay both private school tuition and a tutor, so we placed her in public school the following year where she recieved an IEP and by the end of the year was reading Harry Potter."

Harry Potter has been around for that long? Wow.

bluealien01

"two hours is too much for 1st grade
I think the educational association made a statement of 10 minutes per grade
10 min 1st grade- 20 minutes 2nd etc.
I would sit down with teacher and ask how long homework should take.
I can't imagine anyone assigning 2 hours of homework a night for 6 year olds, when are they supposed to sit like zombies in front of Sesame Street! ( I meant unwind )"

Which is why I wonder why some schools give too much. I had a lot of homework also. There were many parents who did not like the school systems here. Several of the pastors we have had at church over the years either hated the schools but had no choice to put their kids in them or refused to put their children in them and therefore their wives homeschooled their children. I seriously think that these kids had a lot more time to be kids--they could study for a few hours and then take breaks. In school, you have to be bored to death for 7+ hours straight basically, and some kids have to ride the school bus as much as 2 hours a day (one hour to school, one hour back home). I don't blame kids for being worn out after they get home. I was worn out too. The first thing I did was watch TV....

bluealien01

"Momsdream, I know nothing about reading disabilities, but I do have a story to share:
A friend of mine home-schooled his son. He was quite worried about his inability to read, until at age 9 it just "clicked"! He became an avid reader after that time. His doctor told the father, that he did the best thing in the world by homeschooling his son, explaining that he would have been "labeled" and frustrated had he gone through the typical education system. Homeschooling gave him the added time he needed."

This is similar to me. For some reason it took me a really long time to understand math completely. One day it just clicked with the right teacher.

jamimom

As I said, Momsdream, an evaluation is in order, just in cases some insidious problem is there beginning to rear its ugly head. But I did want to share that "watch that big first step" syndrome that just about trip me up. My close friend in Baltimore who started her family late slammed into that wall. Her oldest had to go for special tutoring at a special school because he was not reading up to par in "prefirst" grade. Baltimoreans with kids in private schools will know that term--it was new to me. For kids who just miss the cutoff or are a bit behind for first grade, I guess you redshirt the kid a year to make him stellar later on (I did have one of mine repeat kindergarten whis is the same thing, and for athletics, wow, it does have an effect, especially as he was talented that way anyways). So my friend was paying for a special program along with a pricey private school, the kid was diagnosed with a bunch of syndromes all that vaporized in the next several years. He is now in middle school and is doing fine, and his mom has no idea whether he really had learning issues then that were "cured" or if he just needed a developmental lift off that the school did not want to provide. Sylvan makes a bundle off of that "big first step".

citygirlsmom

Okay, dumb question, have you had her vision checked...my daughter at 5 had an eye that would not focus, was causing delay...just covering all the bases... we had know idea something was wrong...

momsdream

citygirlsmom- yes, she has had several vision screens. She gets them via our family optician (this one is very comprehensive), as well as the one her pediatrician's offfice gives as part of her "well child" check-ups. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

SBmom

As you know jym626 pointed us in the direction of vision therapy after we had a general evaluation for ADD and many of my son's poorer sub tests were in visual tasks.

I will just share with you some of the questions on the questionnaire we did at the Optometrist's office, which is used to screen for vsision therapy-related problems:

Afraid to catch a ball?
Afraid of heights?
Bad handwriting?
Motion/car sickness?
Rubs eyes, blinks excessively, red eyes?
Tired during or immed after reading?
Headaches?
Won't stay focused on homework, needs lots of help?
Can't do "word problems" (mental math) but can do numerical sums?
Moves head while reading?
Holds book close or at an angle?
Loses place easily, re-reads same line or skips line/word unknowingly?
Uses finger or bookmark to keep place while reading?

Both my sons have 20/20 vision.

Son #1 (horrid handwriting, forgetful, poor attention, uses finger) has mildly crossed eyes (you wouldn't notice it)... though he is able to "hold" them straight with effort. Every time he focuses from far to near or back, his eyes cross slightly, then straighten with effort. This just makes reading and focusing (visually & generally) quite tiring. Looking from teacher to desk is an effort each time and after a while can just make him disengage mentally. He has always been a decent reader but when wearing corrective glasses his speed & fluency went way up.

When I was filling out the questionnaire for son#1, I realized with horror that my litttle boy was a "yes" answer on many questions too, so I had him evaluated too.

Son#2: (has every problem above except he has good handwriting and is not afraid of heights) His problems are quite significant: his eyes do not move in a coordinated, smooth way across a page. As a result, he basically reads with one eye only-- and it is very jumpy & uncoordinated (but I guess this is easier than trying to coordinate 2 eyes that won't behave.) Oddly, his reading skills are above grade level and he got 10/10 correct on comprehension questions. So he is compensating-- just gets exhausted and cranky when he has to do this sort of work. When I saw what his eyes were doing (they have special goggles with sensors that track where your eyes are looking as you read) it was unbelieveable he can read at all. I wanted to cry for every time he has gotten frustrated during homework and I have been sharp with him thinking he was just being obstinate. Reading with his eyes would be like trying to thread a needle while drunk.

Both boys will do 12 weeks of specific eye exercizes, training the muscles--just like physical therapy would work for an arm muscle that needed it. Supposedly this is sufficient for most people.

The poor attention aspect of both my kids *can* have an ADD component as well; the question we had was to what extent is the vision the culprit, and to what extent is there an ADD issue? Before medicating, we wanted to try the vision therapy to see how much improvement could be achieved with it alone. If there is enough improvement, we can skip the medication.

I was absolutely shocked that nobody mentioned this at edpsych, school, etc. I am very grateful to jym626 and CC for pointing us in this direction.

citygirlsmom

My daughter was going to lose the vision in her left eye if she didn't patch her good eye when she was 4. SHe wore a patch so her "weak" eye would have to work. No surgery would have solved the problem. It worked, she now has 20-30 in that eye, where she might have been legally blind. It also helped her reading, sports etc. It took a real specaillist to catch the problem

MotherOfTwo

I know the problem my niece had was not caught by standard vision screens, and a person who was measured with 20/20 vision could still have this problem.

SBmom

Exactly: both my sons have 20/20 vision!

No vision screening at school or pediatrician would catch this. Never would be caught even at eye doctor, unless the optometrist has a subspecialty in the vision therapy field and does the correct tests to catch these sorts of functional problems.