Delicate Arch

I've got a PhD in math and I have complained about this way of teaching math for years. Not to depress you, but my daughter who is now in BC calculus still can't do arithmetic well (that's what she loses points for, not the calculus part!). Further, her teacher can't understand why all these bright kids are so poorly prepared. Trust me, those of us that teach kids after the "new math" curriculum gets done with them are NOT happy.

I finally gave up on enlightening the school and took over tutoring my kids and their friends myself. I would teach them the way to add, subtract and so on (and eventually how to do algebra, probability and so on) nd then show them how to do what the Connected Math program wanted. It is a total shame that our country has taken this route. But, as my kids would say, don't get me started on this.

Whatapainthisis

Tokenadult, I am looking over your very thorough post on that other forum. You seem to feel that the Saxon Math would not be a good suggested alternative to the Everyday Math. I get the feeling from other posters that the Saxon is different from Everyday Math in that it is more "rote learning". Am I wrong, or are the Asian methods of math learning (Singapore and the method that you said is the best, but needs English translation) not based more on rote?

Whatapainthisis

I had a talk with my son today (as good as that can go with an 8 year-old boy throwing a ball while talking) about math and school in general. He said that he does not understand how to differentiate what operation to use in word problems (my daughter and I both had trouble with word math problems as well). He did go on to say that multiplication is like addition and division is like subtraction, but that he gets confused. He said that he does no group work. He said that he wishes the teacher would tell him the easiest possible way to solve a problem.

I also asked him about what he does when he puts things together, to see if he is actually reading directions. I asked him about whether he ever has to read the directions to complete things, and he said only when he "works on inside parts", but he said he basically just looks at the picture (even on these 3D puzzles, which at 900 pieces, would drive me nuts). One of the first things he put together was a scooter on his 7th birthday, because he was sick of waiting for us, but he told us that he put that together without the directions.

He said that he does not like "boring reading". I actually don't think he has a real reading problem though, because he read Freckle Juice outloud to me in 1/2 hour with no error because he had to get through that before he could swim with his friend. I was shocked, it seems that his struggles can be "selective".

thisoldman

Have him tested.

tokenadult

The Singapore math books have the strength compared to Saxon that they encourage multiple ways of looking at a problem and THINKING about what you are doing. They have the strength compared to Everyday Mathematics of teaching all the standard algorithms well and wasting a lot of time on methods that are impractical in daily life. They have the strength compared to both of those programs of expecting kids to get it after they've had reasonable amounts of review and then going on to new topics.

musicianmom

We had a bad experience with Everyday Math also in 1st/2nd grade (private school). The teacher was excellent, specially trained and very enthusiastic - can't blame her. Fortunately, she was also very cooperative. When it became apparent that D simply was not going to be able to manage even rudimentary skills such as two column addition, I intervened. I was able to convince the teacher that D could master addition and get correct answers (!) with me teaching her my old fashioned method. Teacher had no difficulty with me "homeschooling" that skill (and others). She did indicate that she would continue working with D the EDM way - I think she eventually gave up! D moved to a different school after 3rd grade. They didn't use EDM and she was a solid B - B+ math student through high school. Math concepts don't seem to come intuitively, but explanation, demonstration and practice in a more traditional format served her well.

A friend of mine, a math LD specialist told me that she has seen many kids who can't make it through the EDM curriculum, but can learn the same skills if taught in a more "traditional" manner.

I remember a lot of controversy and media coverage when we were first encountering EDM in the early 1990's. I'm surprised the curriculum is still around - maybe it's changed somewhat? I have great sympathy for anyone dealing with this mismatch of kid vs. curriculum!

musicianmom

I just remembered our "summer math games"! D was weak on story problems - as are many. I bought several workbooks from the local teacher store and cut out individual problems. We would do several a day, reach into the bowl and pull out a problem. Somehow, that made it more fun than just doing the workbook.

To learn to recognize the words that would indicate the function (addition, subtraction , mutipication, division ) needed, I told D she was a detective that had to find the clue word that would tell her to what to do. She had a "special pencil" to circle the clue word. I began with all addition problems, then went to subtraction, then mixed them. That way, she seemed to avoid confusion. Similarly, with multiplaction and division and gradually mixed everything. She actually got very good at this kind of problem for standarized tests - I think it was because she had taught herself to "think through" the written problem in an unstressful manner.

I was lucky to have a very cooperative kid who was willing to take on the challenge of confronting a subject she disliked and perceived as "too hard" for her. Best of luck - frankly, I would not want to do it again!

midmo

musicianmom, I think the kid was very lucky to have such a concerned, creative and committed mom!

NorthEastMom2

2 of my kids survived everyday math. I have an undergrad degree in Math, so basically I taught them real math at home. Try taking a state standardized timed test in Math - doing lattice method and Everday math division instead of traditional multiplication & long division !! It became very apparent that the children who achieved high math scores were not doing the lattice method or division by parts.

paying3tuitions

Chedva, after all the times you've bailed me out with accurate info, I can finally return the favor: Cuisinaire Rods.

They look like chopsticks minus the pointy part. They have color-coded segments and a base ten system, so that two of one color equals the length of another color. One orange equals two blues or four greens, and so on.

Kids can make many discoveries with them, or use them as measuring devices (my comb is two oranges long). From this they learn that all measuring units are arbitrary, so it makes introducing an inch or a centimeter easier as a second step, after they realize that all things can be measured.

kelsmom

I spent 3 years campaigning against the "new" math in our district. When my D had Mathematics in Context in 6th grade, I met with the teacher, principal, district math consultant, assistant superintendent, superintendent, and school board ... in that order ... giving them specific examples of its weaknesses and citing info from experts to support my concerns. I was blown off every single time. I finally put my kids in private school, even though it was a major financial strain. I just didn't see any other way to do it. It was just too important.

My D had multiplied & divided fractions in elementary school. In 6th grade, she was being asked to compare fractions by putting water in a tuna can & pouring it into a soup can. It was so 1st grade!

D was stuck with it for 3 years, and when I put her in private high school, she scored 99th percentile on the math portion of the entrance exam. She was tentatively scheduled to be in Honors Geometry, but the school had a policy that all students would take a placement exam. D flunked the exam ... she had not had nearly enough algebra, even though she theoretically had the first year of high school math in 8th grade (Integrated 1). She was placed in Honors Algebra, and she ended up having to double up on math classes junior year in order to take AP Calc senior year.

S had an amazing middle school math program, with a Pre-Algebra class, an Algebra class, and then another Algebra class (this one used the wonderful Brown series). He is now in a public high school, where he took Integrated 2 in 9th & now Integrated 3 in 10th. He hasn't learned much new stuff, and he hasn't gone as in-depth in algebra to date as he did in 8th grade. No difficult polynomials to factor yet. We are supplementing him with an intermediate algebra class at the local community college. His district went back to the traditional math, but he missed that by a year. His math teacher tells me her calc kids are so bad at algebra ... she hates integrated math. My friend teaches cc chem & says the same thing.

I suggest going to mathematicallycorrect.com. They have a section that reviews math programs/books. There is a lot of good info on the site. I hope you can come up with a good way to supplement your child's math education. It is so important!

astrophysicsmom

You struck a chord with me....My 17-yr-old daughter was in a public elem school that was all over Everyday Math (I think, shortly after it came out)... She had come from pre-school and equiv of kindergarten at a Montessori school, which was SO much into the tactile learning. She couldn't figure out why you'd "estimate" something when you could just figure it out. She went through the motions, got absolutely NOTHING out of the curriculum, and continued to excel in math via workbooks, computer math learning "games", etc. When we moved and she went into a school with a more "traditional" math program in 4th grade, she was at least 2 years ahead of her classmates.

Whatapain....the best advice I can give is to try to supplement what he does at school, with "fun" things---and stay away from video games that are not directly reinforcing reading/writing or math skills.... we used any and all opportunities to make games out of driving, shopping, waiting in lines, to play math games, Hangman, etc. In terms of writing, my daughters and I used to "write" stories verbally in the car. One of us would say a sentence, and then the next person added a sentence to continue the story. It usually got silly fast, but I usually tried to add larger words, etc. When they got older, we'd do it, but only add one word at a time...

If he is really spending "hours of math, spelling, and 'reading for pleasure' that he has to log" then you need to seriously discuss with the teacher what you can be doing to minimize that.... at that age, there's no way that school work needs to be drudgery, nor be that time consuming. There's plenty of time in middle school and high school for that. Now is the time you want him to look forward to going to school! Good luck!!!

tokenadult

Yes, the Miquon Math series is based on Cuisenaire rods

ETA/Cuisenaire: Cuisenaire Rods

and they are a great tool for early math learning. One trick for using Cuisenaire rods is that ANY rod can be defined as the unit, making it easy to define fractions in different ways.

astrophysicsmom

kelsmom---the tuna cans to teach fractions....a great example. I vividly remember a unit on shapes...and a worksheet about how shapes are used in their own homes....I mean, I guess it was a good concept, but it was so lame compared to the work she was capable of doing. So, gosh darn it, she had to tell the teacher how many rectangles she could find in our house, and she did!!! (it was a very rectangly house---I think we counted (or computed via calculator...NOT estimating!!!) over 1800 rectangles in that house. I went through the house with a crazed look in my eyes, Einstein-like hair flying everywhere....SHE WANTS RECTANGLES??? We'll show her RECTANGLES!!! I think D finally just took it as another sign that I'd lost it, and went along for the ride.

kelsmom

I really hate the way estimating is taught. I agree with those who said that it needs to be used for something one might actually use it for ... like getting a ballpark figure on a basket of groceries when there is only a finite amount of money available. Both my kids are excellent math students, but both had trouble with estimating for the simple fact that they could easily figure out the correct answer. The WORST is front-end estimating. It's ridiculous.