LaxAttack09

Because dmd, McCain cay start dropping racial slurts left/right, that doesn't mean it would be best for him to do so. The point of this thread isn't to question if what Obama said was right/wrong, it was to point out that whether it is right or wrong (I believe it was wrong) there are certain things you just don't say in a Presidential election. McCain could say that he hates America, but I'm sure it wouldn't go over very well...just like Obama can say w/e he wants, but things like this don't go over too well especially w/ those in states like oh/in/mi/pa

tega

"I am so tired of all the "you can't SAY that" hoopla in this campaign. Why exactly can't the press ask Clinton why she chose to stay with a lying philanderer? (And I voted for him, too, but I wouldn't have stayed with him.) Why can't Obama address the frustration/bitterness/what have you/etc. of the rust belt? Why can't someone say that Americans' obsession with religion is a problem? Why can't I say that McCain is old and that I'm worried he may have Alzheimer's, like our last old president?"

I think the press should also ask Obama why he is speaking out against his pastor now after sitting in that church and listening to that kind of garbage for the last 20 years.

This is why some black people are so behind in a lot of things. They listen to these people who are bitter with their life. Some blame the government for everything wrong with them, never willing to take any personal responsibility. Always bitter about every thing. Please get some help if you are bitter. Bitterness wont solve anything.

"Why can't someone say that Americans' obsession with religion is a problem?"

Everyone has the right to practice their religion. The fact that you have a problem with religion does not give you the right to question why people are religious IMHO.

This is what is wrong with the current democratic party, the left wingers are trying to highjack the party the same way the right wingers have highjacked the republican party.

icy9ff8

The real issue is Senator Obama's judgment. He had it won & is now jeopardizing his status as an unifying figure and as the near certain nominee. In fact, he has now become such a divisive figure that the Republicans hope Senator Obama becomes the nominee because his own words & associations will greatly harm him in the general election. I wonder if he will have difficulty finding a running mate? I bet good old boy Bill "Judas" Richardson bet that he kept neutral. Some of the big time Pennsylvania politicians that endorsed Senator Obama are wishing that they could turn back the clock.

bz2010

Excellent point Tega! I never thought of it like that. He's been a bit derelict in his duties as a U.S. Senator also (i.e. not convening or attending committee meetings).

After one has had the job of Senator/ Governor, etc. for awhile, and having well-performed the duties of the office to which one has been elected, then I think it is appropriate to run for higher office. First one should do the job one has been elected to do.

How has having Obama as their Senator benefitted the people of Illinois?

mezzomom

My interpretation of Senator Obama's initial comments, aided by his comments in Indiana: When government has failed you economically for over 25 years, citizens tend to become cynical about their government. They tend to respond to hot-button issues, like gun control, "Christian" issues, anti-immigration topics, anti-trade rhetoric, etc. In other words, it's not uncommon to become single-issue voters and respond to talking points alone. His comments appear to me to be an assessment of the sort of issues that he will have to address as a candidate; specifically, how to get beyond single-issue ideology.

The OP contends this will lose Senator Obama votes in the Rust Belt. I wonder about that; there are always going to be votes he won't win, no matter what, but I think it's refreshing to hear someone give nuanced explanations that aren't always dumbed-down. Sadly, the traditional media hasn't caught on that the average American is quite capable of actual thought, and this election cyle will probably be a never-ending stream of 10-20 second clips which lack context.

teriwtt

Do you have some sort of hidden camera in that church that records Wright's sermons for 20 years? Somehow, I suspect if there were 20 years worth of this diatribe, more than a couple of them would have made it on YouTube.



You've got to be kidding me. If this is true, then what's all those whites' excuses who are so behind in a lot of things.

tega

"You've got to be kidding me. If this is true, then what's all those whites' excuses who are so behind in a lot of things."

I don't think those white people are blaming black people for their problems the way the struggling black people blame white people for most of their problems.

teriwtt

Hillary addressed the the gun issue today, citing the second amendment and all. How dare Obama dare take away the much loved hobby of hunters, she insinuated. Well, this is a different take on her opinions of guns:

From the New York Times (5/9/99)
Stepping up the Clinton Administration's campaign against gun violence, Hillary Rodham Clinton used an emotional White House ceremony today to call on Americans to press Congress to ''buck the gun lobby'' and pass several gun control measures.

Today's event, pegged to Mother's Day, which is Sunday, was held in the formal East Room of the White House and featured three parents of children killed or wounded by gunfire. They included Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel was killed last month in the shooting rampage in Littleton, Colo. His story of waiting for word about his son's fate brought Mrs. Clinton nearly to tears as she took the podium and gravely addressed an audience of other parents who had lost their children in shootings.

The Senate is to begin debate next week on a number of gun control measures, some of which mirror proposals offered recently by President Clinton. ''The senators need to hear from all of us,'' Mrs. Clinton said. She urged voters ''to give them the encouragement to do what they know is right and to remind them that there are many, many millions of American voters and citizens who will stand behind political leaders who are brave enough to buck the gun lobby, wherever that may take us, so that they will vote for the measures that we know will save lives.''

Mrs. Clinton was as careful as her husband has been to say that there are many causes of violence and that parents need to take responsibility for their children's behavior. But Mrs. Clinton, who is considering running for the Senate from New York, where gun control is popular, has also been more forceful than the President in directly taking on the powerful gun lobby in the aftermath of the Littleton killings.

kluge

I think everything Obama said was absolutely true. When cynical politicians and their fellow propagandists use "hot button" themes like homosexuals, abortion, "war on Christmas" and similar phony "issues" to get working men and women to vote them into office - and then turn around and royally shaft the very people who elected them, while they are distracted by the flashy but bogus sound and fury surrounding things which actually pose no threat to the voters - that's shameful. And people who repeat those themes are the "boots on the ground" who make the strategy possible.

Do any of you "you can't say that" folks actually think that what Obama said was actually untrue? If you do, defend that. I'm interested to hear what you have to say. Tell me how Republican politicians have improved the life and prospects of working class "rust belt" Americans with the policies they have instituted. Republican rule has worked out well for the Paris Hiltons and Leona Helmsleys of the world. Not so much for "Joe Sixpack." And Joe Sixpack should be bitter.

zoosermom

My personal feeling is that Senator Obama's comments were true of some of the population to which he was referring and untrue of others. Like every group, there will be differences of opinion and priority. What I do think, however, (again, my opinion) is that the comments reflected that Senator Obama likely has had very little personal contact with the people to whom he was referring. I work in a law firm with people similarly educated, and I can tell you that these are among the most wonderful people you could ever meet, but they either associate with people like themselves or the poor with whom they volunteer, but outside of their support staff, have almost no contact with the truly middle class. That, I think, is a problem for Senator Obama.

Christcorp

The problem is that no one wants to tell the American people the truth, and even if they did, most people don't want to hear it. The truth is; we are becoming more and more a global economy. The truth is; not even the president of the united states is going to be able to reopen the vast majority of any of these closed plants and factories. The truth is; once they've closed them, they will remain closed. The truth is; if you want to find work in your trained profession, then there's a really good chance that you will have to move. If you want to stay where you are, then get retrained in something else. That's the way it is. So sorry, so sad, oh well.

It's not immigration problems and it's not the problem of the government. For years, we produced for ourselves and we exported to countries that were developing. Now that they are developing, they are producing goods and exporting them. Because they aren't as developed as we are, their standard of living is much lower. That means much cheaper prices. That means goods will be produced there and sold here. Again, sorry, but that's the way it is. The president can't change that. Trying to explain global macro-economics is difficult. Suffice it to say that if you tax or prohibit the importation of certain goods so that we can produce more for to be sold to ourselves, you cause artificial inflation and you open up a lot of trade and political issues. These overseas countries are trying to make a living too. You can't just stop importing totally.

Anyway, what Obama said was condescending. He implies that because people are bitter and frustrated about losing their jobs, that they turn to stereotypical small town redneck vices such as guns, god, and prejudice. He screwed up, will again, and is going to have to take care of it.

Tyler09

THATS the big attack?

you "just don't say that", THATS the offensive? When you have to tell somebody they have to be offended by something you know you're grasping at straws.

Honestly, of all the attacks, this has got to be the least substantive of them all. "Gasp, Obama said Santa Claus isn't real! And children heard him! DREAM CRUSHER!"

Stellena

"I can tell you that these are among the most wonderful people you could ever meet, but they either associate with people like themselves or the poor with whom they volunteer, but outside of their support staff, have almost no contact with the truly middle class. That, I think, is a problem for Senator Obama." zoosermom

Is this not true for all professionals? How many miners or auto makers are Hillary and McCain taking to dinner?

marite

Zoosermom:

Obama may not be very familiar with PA residents, but of the three presidential candidates, he must have the closest relations with lower income people (both employed and unemployed), since he was a community organizer.

zoosermom

"Obama may not be very familiar with PA residents, but of the three presidential candidates, he must have the closest relations with lower income people (both employed and unemployed), since he was a community organizer"

Marite, I think that's very true, but I was really talking about the lower-middle-class white people who aren't wealthy and educated but aren't people to whom organizers extend a helping hand. If you're white and poor, you're often invisible to some people.