StitchInTime

From Hillary Clinton's Biography:

marite

I am familiar with HRC's admirable record of advocating for children. But this kind of work does not necessarily involves face-to-face contact with the children and families that are served. For example, ensuring that children are properly immunized has more to do with lobbying adults than giving shots to children. A community organizer, by contrast, cannot organize from behind a desk and a rolodex.

mercymom

"Marite, I think that's very true, but I was really talking about the lower-middle-class white people who aren't wealthy and educated but aren't people to whom organizers extend a helping hand. If you're white and poor, you're often invisible to some people."


Agree. Most, if not all, of Obama's work with the poor and underprivileged is with the black community of the south side of Chicago. This is a world away culturally from the working class whites of Pennsylvania and Indiana. And we're not really talking poor whites, but more lower middle class whites. When you talk about guns with these people we're talking hunting and Bambi in the back of the pickup.

I read the Huffington post stuff, and I think Obama was just trying to explain the rural class in Pa to his Calif audience. I don't think he was trying or meant in any way to insult Pa, but they will most likely take it as an insult. Several Pa mayors are complaining already.

mercymom

fwiw - I live in a huntin/fishin pickup truck kind of town, and this is not a lifestyle born of bitterness, it's just what people like to do. There are people here who have "camo" weddings where the entire wedding party wears camouflage. Really. I heard someone talking about it in the wedding shop while D1 looked for a formal for a sorority party.

saransay

This quote and Reverend Wright gets load of coverage on the tv, but on every other day of the week, the same pinheads say the media is rooting for Obama.

ninja.of.love

Is this bitterness the reason gun owners won't vote for Obama? I thought it was his opposition to concealed carry...and semiautomatic weapons...and FFLs within 5 miles of schools or parks...and his support of the DC handgun ban...and...

Is this Obama's attempt to write off gun owners before the Philadelphia debate? I really don't understand it. He shouldn't highlight issues that he has a losing record on and he definitely shouldn't attack those voters (who aren't in his camp to begin with) as bitter, whether the economy is the real reason or not. Obama's campaign should realize that saying voters disagree with Obama on significant issues (religion, immigration, gun ownership) because of their economic status is insulting to many potential voters.

marite

Obama has supported (limited) gun ownership to a greater degree than Clinton(despite her recent claims to having learned to shoot in her childhood).

What his supporters claim he meant was that that frustrated rural voters are being distracted from the real causes of their anger (or bitterness) by focusing on issues such as gun control, immigration, us vs.them, gay marriage and the like, and taking refuge in their faith and their family because they have lost confidence that their economic plight will be addressed by politicians. His comments could certainly be open to very Shifting Gears - The Boston Globe

It does not sound very different from some of the remarks made by Obama.

I agree that the African-Americans from the South Side of Chicago are very different from the lower middle class whites in PA; but my general point that Obama's work (and lack of wealth) has made him far more familiar with the issues confronting the poor than McCain or Clinton still stands.

tega

Marite, I think you should listen to his original statements on huffintingpost instead of the spin.

I am not suggesting what you should do; to me primary sources are very important not the spin version.

To even suggest that people cling to religion out bitterness due to their economic situation, to me, represents a lack of understanding of religious people. Perhaps, he made these statements because a lot of the people in his church are clinging on to the church out of bitterness.


I think Obama grew up in a much more privilege background than Hillary. He was originally recruited specifically to help organize the people from south side Chicago because the white organizers were not making any progress with this group. He has some experience dealing with poor people, but they were mostly black.

marite

I HAVE listened to his original statements (and please do not tell me what I should or should not do since you do not know what I have done. Thank you). I am discussing interpretations, Clinton's as well as his supporters. Isn't this what the whole controversy is about? Interpretation and spin?

Anyway, Talkingpointsmemo has two interesting new entries, one by Theda Skocpol of Harvard University who has written on the origins of the welfare state and has a long history with the Clintons, and a clip from a Charlie Rose interview with Obama from 2004. Read and listen for yourselves.

Tyler09

I just think its funny that people are trying to say that he was "attacking" them as being bitter. Since when is bringing attention to the fact that people are upset with the current administration an insult?

A.S.A.P.

Speaking of original statements, there is a Charlie Rose segment from 2004 where Obama discusses this very point while Senator Elect. Listening to this interview from two years ago, it's' clear that he was speaking with compassion and not condescension. While he uses some of the same language, he explains his views.
You can find the segment through YouTube (entering Charlie Rose-Obama) , or through the Josh Marshall website, where I found it in an edited form which will show the relevant 3 minutes without having to wade through the whole Rose interview.

I don't expect those who don't like Obama to bother with this, but if you are inclined to vote for him and want a better picture of where he was coming from when he made these remarks, go to Josh Marshall's website and see the clip.

lol-marite- I see we cross posted, here.

tega

I have watched it.

He did not specifically address religion in his answer to Charlie's question in regards to how people vote. He talked about guns specifically. I don't care why people want to hold guns. I think there should be some form of gun control to prevent criminals from getting access to them.

I agree with his position that the Republican party have been able recognize what is important to this group and they have been able to get their message across because a lot of the members of the Democratic party are so anti gun.

I am not a religious person, but my parents are, and they don't vote for people because of religion.

marite

Can you say Jerry Falwell? James Dobson? Hagee?

teriwtt

tega - I would caution you to consider the difference between religion and spirituality when it comes to assessing people's experience and comment. I know a lot of 'religious' people who, when push comes to shove, are not able to find comfort within their own church. And I know a lot of people who do not belong to a church, who have an incredible sense of spirituality and faith in God. I do a lot of spiritual life review with people, and there can be huge disconnects in this area.

mercymom

"Since when is bringing attention to the fact that people are upset with the current administration an insult?"

You just don't get it. The people who are getting insulted are not insulted 'cause they think Obama is saying they are upset with their financial situation or the current administration. They are insulted cause they think that Obama (and people like him) think they like guns, religion, etc, due to their economic problems.

It may be exactly how Marite has thought it out in terms of dynamics, but the guy with Bambi in the back of the pickup won't interpret it that way. He's going to think Obama is insulting his lifestyle; that's how it's going to come across to him. The feeling this guy will get is that Obama is saying "vote for me and I'll make things so good for you that you won't need to cling to your guns and your religion and hate immigrants any more - you'll change for the better". These people don't do what they do cause they feel bad - they LIKE their lifestyle and are tired of liberals putting it down.