scansmom

I think the more important question is: Would YOU want to hang out with someone like you? If your answer is no, then it is time to do some serious soul-searching to determine what you can do to change, and to seek out the resources that might help you do this. Each person is born with an infinite number of possible selves - there is more than one path your life can take. You have gotten stuck on one path that seems destined to a life most would consider undesirable and unfulfilling (which is why they would not want to hang out with you); but this does not have to be your destiny. So, is it the path you really want to follow?

wbksoft

Unfortunately, that's the truth. My motivation has always been external, as I did not want to live the rest of my life blaming my misfortunes on not having a college degree, like so many people without a college degree do.

I am not really interested in awards or accolades. I am just interested in doing something that I like doing. I enjoyed taking computer science courses back in school, but programming jobs are not as fun as computer science courses. So I really don't know what I'd do if I knew I couldn't fail. I guess I would run for president.

I told that same statement to some psychologist I met for an evaluation, and she accused me of having low self-esteem. Perhaps I should have clarified that I am aware that a great chunk of society perceives me as being a loser, and that I have mixed feelings about that.

I am not rebelling, I am just being myself. If anything, I am tired of forcing myself to do things I don't want to do in an effort to earn the respect of random strangers I don't really care about.

But working out and doing volunteer work isn't going to improve my current living conditions. And if I were such a selfless soul, I'd be doing volunteer work already.

No, but I don't know what other path to follow. I can't really aspire for much in terms of employment because I don't have the social skills to maintain or even be considered for a position where leadership and a great deal of spoken communicational skills are required. So my only path seems to be strictly within the field of programming, without advancing to any management style job or deviating from writing code. Alas, I don't really care that much about programming to bother competing for better paying/more prestigious programming jobs against people who are more talented, passionate, obsessed and intelligent than I am.

but yeah, I hate living in a society where I am considered a loser. I wish I had the passion and the talent to pursue some so socially approved career path.

je_ne_sais_quoi

To your question of "Would you approve of your kids hanging out with me" I would ask: Why do you ask?

I wonder if you are looking for the external world to say you are fine the way you are, to the extent that we wouldn't mind your traits potentially rubbing off on our kids.

The fact that you are asking the question seems to reflect at least a little dissatisfaction with who you are, and that is not the most adaptive way to go through life. To me it sounds like you are struggling with either accepting yourself for who you are, or feeling like you should change to be more mainstream.

With enough drive and motivation, there are "socially approved career paths" for almost every skill set, social and otherwise. You might benefit from a group that will help strengthen your social skills. You sound depressed, but I do not think a forum like this is the place for a definitive diagnosis.

I am sorry you hate living in a society where you feel you are considered a loser because you are not typical or a conformist. Try to remember that no one who has truly made a difference in this world has been typical or a conformist. Different people are the ones who make a difference!

I hope you will do what is necessary to be comfortable living in your own skin. That's the key, regardless of what skin that is!

wbksoft

you are right

emeraldkity4

If you could change one thing right now- I would start exercising at least 3 times a week for at least 60-90 min. Aerobic exercise- running or walking at a fast enough pace so that you can't talk at the same time will increase your stamina, elevate your mood and help you sleep better as well as increase overall health.

MidwestMom2Kids_

OK, if you and your counselor both say you are not depressed, I'll go along with it and agree, but seriously, hon, perk up!

My humble opinion, fwiw.

If exercising is at all your cup of tea, running is likely to cheer you up.

Or do volunteer work that you enjoy. Think about what you like to do and then volunteer to do it.

Find some pleasant non-judgmental friends (while volunteering or perhaps at church/temple?)

You really don't want to go through your whole life like this. You don't need to become a mainstream drone, but you need to perk up. (How's your thyroid? Could you just be "tired"?)

Good luck!

tli83

I think you are focussed too much on your job. There are plenty of people who don't have prestigious jobs or lots money who are liked and respected because they are kind or compassionate or responsible or funny or a whole world of other things.

I don't know if I would be friends with you. You remind me of someone I knew in high school. He was kind of in my outer circle of friends because we were on a quiz team together. The thing that really caught my eye was you wearing grandad clothes, because he did exactly the same thing.

Although I think he was a nice enough guy, we were not better friends because a lot of the time he was just so hard to be around. He could be so negative and difficult and was always so sure that he was right that he would never compromise and do things he didn't want to do. Trying to do anything with him could be so infuriating and draining that there were times when I just wanted to drag him around by the arm like a small, unreasonable child rather than argue and cajole him through every activity just so we could ever get anything done.

He could also be really scathing and unkind about people without really seeming to understand that people would be offended by it. Although in some respects he had horribly low self-esteem, he also thought himself to be rather special and clever and he hated, and was quite confused, when people didn't accept that view of him and dared to challenge him or not give him the respect he felt should naturally be accored to him simply because of his intelligence and specialness, as though he did not have to give anything else. He could get really resentful, and like you, he really knew how to hold a grudge.

So, anyway, I probably wouldn't be friends with you, because you remind me too much of that person. He is an interesting person, and I like to hear his opinions, but he is not a friend. I don't think he (or you) would corrupt me, it would just be too tiring, and potentially unrewarding. I don't think you would want to be friends with me either, so it's not just like I am right and you are wrong for thinking the way you do, it's just difference.

One thing I am not really clear about is if you even want friends. It seems to me that you want to be accepted and respected and for people to think well of you, and friends would be a sign and validation of that. But I am not sure though that you really want friendship with all the demands and compromises that entails. I thought it was interesting how you described the people in your high school - they "envied/hated/admired" you for your academic achievements, but were they actually your friends?

I think you have to come to peace with yourself, either find things you want to do and enjoy, regardless of how 'socially acceptable' they are, or live with that fact that most people make compromises every day and decide for yourself what compromises you are willing to make in pursuit of the friendship and acceptance you want. The thing you can't really do unless you are very lucky is make no effort and still get everything you want.

srw

tli83, well said. I think it's called external locus of control, flip side, internal locus of control. I believe this is something that can be changed.

scansmom

I was also going to say, that my S would probably hang out with you. He has Asperger's, and given his social naivety, might not "see" or care about some of the traits or attitudes that others might view more negatively and from which they draw their conclusions about you. He too pretty much marches to his own drum and could care less about the opinions of others (and this could easily be something that causes him problems in the "real" world once he is finished with college). At the same time, he has some pretty rigid attitudes and difficulties in understanding and appreciating personality differences in others, so unless you were enough "alike", he might not even give you the time of day.

I appreciate the comments about being able to live with yourself and not having to live up to others' expectations, but at the same time, you DO need to live with the rest of the world. Most people who do not "conform" socially, at least to some degree, do not make it in our society (and become the ones we so often label as "losers"). This has always been and continues to be my biggest fear for my own S. Being "yourself" and fitting in to mainstream society do not have to be mutually exclusive; you can have it both ways, but it WILL first require some positive changes in your attitudes about yourself and the world around you. The fact that you are posting here suggests that for all your talk about not caring what others think about you, you care a lot more than perhaps even you realize.

You may be born with certain characteristics that you believe define who you are but any characteristic you are born with can be presented to or viewed by the world both negatively and positively, so it is up to you to decide how you want to to present yourself and, yes, for some, discovering their personal strengths, can be more difficult than for others (and work - I think perhaps you are used to taking the path that required the least amount of work, which "worked" fine when you were in school but not so much anymore), but that discovery may also be what helps you develop internal motivation or a passion for SOMETHING that can then help you find purpose in your life, and a way to live comfortably with both yourself and the rest of the world.

Please continue with the counseling since your mental health should be your main priority (and if it is not working, perhaps you can look for someone different). Maybe look into career counseling at the same time, as well as a support group to develop social skills. Just do something beyond posting on an internet forum.

wbksoft

That's interesting. Your acquaintance does sound a lot like me. I was wondering, do you know if he ever got diagnosed with some mental condition?

That's a good point. I am not sure if I want to have friends, either. I am not like most people. I'm sort of like a geek with a bad attitude. I feel like I don't fit nicely into any stereotype.

As far as social skills and public speaking is concerned, I don't have an internal locus of control. But here's the thing, just because I feel that way, does it mean that I am wrong? The day I figure out the mechanics of social interactions, and have it boiled down to a science, and can effortlessly verbalize and communicate my thoughts during face-to-face interactions, I'll have an internal locus of control. But right now I feel pretty helpless.

Career counseling is the last thing I want. Been there, done that. I'll just say that the counselors were not very thrilled with my attitude, and instead of helping me find a career they saw to it that I felt like a bum and a loser. Mental health counseling is useless. I once had an evaluation and they told me that based on my answers it appears that I have a disoder not specified. I don't know what that means. I suppose it's a pitch to get me to spend money on therapy. Or perhaps that's just a random, genetic label that they give to people who are normal save for the fact that they never adjusted too well to society.

scansmom

Perhaps what you were diagnosed with was PDD-NOS (pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified)? This is a lot like Asperger's, both are a form of autism (which is considered to be a mental disorder). From what you have described about yourself so far, you could easily fall on the autism spectrum although clearly not classic autism (I believe that I too am on the spectrum even though I am not officially diagnosed. And yes, it can seem pretty random since so much is still unknown about autism spectrum disorders, including whether some of the disorders should even be called autism). But as with Asperger's, this means that in many respects, you ARE normal, but just - as you said - have problems adjusting to society, due to the way your brain is wired.

Have you seen a therapist with expertise in the area of autism spectrum disorders? That could be the first place to start - find someone who is more knowledgeable with this disorder; even if it is not specifically what you have, you might receive a different kind of counseling than you have in the past.

wbksoft

It wasn't PDD-NOS. If you read the DSM criteria, you'll find that there are plenty of disorders NOS.

People I talk to on the internet rarely fail to mention the possibility that I have Asperger's. The last psychologist I saw, however, told me that I don't have that condition. I asked him why he felt that was the case, since I exhibit so many Asperger's-like symptoms, and he told me that I don't qualify for Asperger's because I reported not being the way I am when I was a child. Instead, I got diagnosed with a personality disorder not specified, since I meet the general criteria for a personality disorder but not the specific criteria for any particular personality disorder. It's important to keep in mind that some personality disorders, such as schizoid and avoidant, can be hard to tell from Asperger's.

asdfjkl1

I think you need a good psychologist rather than this thread.

wbksoft

Not really. I find talking to people on the internet a lot more fulfilling than talking to psychologists. (I don't have a delete key in real life.)

ADad

Not so fast. You've attracted 34 posts (other than your own) and about 1200 views so far on your thread.