SpacedOutSax

Our school district tattoos our kids in elementary as "gifted". Once gifted, always gifted. 6000 kids in district with 1000+ identified as gifted. We do, however have another term that is used quite often: GMA which stands for, Gifted, My Ass!! what makes me laugh is when you talk to a parent who is insistent that her child be advanced a grade, I ask if the child has GMA certification and 98% of the time the parents say something like, "yes, we've had that for a few years now!!"

LazyBum201

> Does your son have any reason to follow the rules?

Perhaps only to please some others, like his parents, and he does seem to want to make others (including parents) happy, but just can't get himself to work unless under the wire. A handwriting specialist (as in the trial expert version, not boardwalk fun version) friend of mine has a husband who could only write grants the day before they were due (actually, the night - as in ALL NIGHT - before they were due) and days he wasn't procrastinating so much as needing pressure to work as well as he did and so it could be this kid is the same. And the same carefree attitude that has him feeling no need to study or get things done well in advance of deadlines could be what allows him to perform well under stress, be creative, etc.

> There seem to be no negative consequences to him.

Other than upset relatives, this seems accurate. He even submitted a paper for a conference after the online submissions had been shut down and a simple email to the conference organizer with his paper attached and dropping a few names (as it turns out a friend of the man's plus the keynote speaker for the conference both urged our son to submit a paper) in the note got him a spot to present at the conference and published in some book. And it seems that it is common for people in his field (and maybe in science and math in general) around the globe to be late on things and getting extensions granted left and right, so it's not like he is doing anything that his own mentor professors don't seem to do, which could be why they also cut their students so much slack.

> Has he ever caused negative consequences to another with his tardy/slacker behaviour?

At times, he has caused people concern (like his advisor wondered if he was okay when our son overslept a meeting one time), embarrassment (when he and a post doc and a guy with several master's degrees all were busy chatting physics at an airport gate and completely missed that their plane left without them till minutes after it was departed and if not getting to the lab they were visiting the morning they were to be there wasn't bad enough, they topped it by working at that lab till 5 AM that first day knowing full well they had an 8:30 AM meeting with people from around the country the next morning and all three of them overslept it and had to be called by their advisor to ask where the heck they were), and frustration (on the part of his parents and some others here and there).

Is that your concern?

One of my concerns is that it can upset others when he is tardy, but another is that it just isn't right to be late with things even if people don't get upset. Someone said, "He's doing well and people there seem not to mind really, so what is the big deal?"

To which I responded, "Well, robbing a bank and never getting caught could make a person rich and happy too, and insurance might cover those who were robbed so it might appear on some level that nobody is getting hurt, but it doesn't make it right." Of course, the bank robbery does have people getting hurt, if not just those who have to pay for insurance coverage having higher rates and paper pushers needing to push more paper, but my point is whether someone is caught/held accountable doesn't make something okay or not okay. I always taught my son that it doesn't matter if he gets caught or not for something so much as that he does what he feels is right (which at times might be against the law, mind you, like Rosa Parks did) and has a strong conscience. And he does to this day appear to be an honest person who thinks about others and tries not to hurt them, and I am happy about that.

> Do you have a concern he will not fullfill his potential?

No, fulfilling potential is very similar to the "do your best" stuff that I've never felt made any sense. How can anyone know someone's potential in life, or when it's been reached? What I would like is that he gives what he is paid to give...for example, not that he slaves in his lab over 40 hours a week, but just that he at least puts in the hours that his lab administrator and faculty advisor would expect graduate students to put in, which I have to think is more than he has been even though his work seems to be good enough that they are keeping him on for the doctorate (as in his program, all students have to reapply for the doctorate in the last semester of the master's and not all are allowed to continue on).

> What is your biggest worry here?

I'm not sure about biggest, but some of the concerns are that:

1) He'll lose the respect of others (myself included, as my love for him exists no matter his slacker behaviors, but my respect for him deteriorates when I feel he isn't giving the time he should to his job), and I can't say if my son feels as I do, but for me, I have always valued respect from others more than love from others (is this odd? Not sure, but if our son is also this way, if he does lose the respect of many people, he could become depressed, which needless to say would be bad)

2) He might come to not have good feelings about what he accomplishes as he felt they weren't work (other than in a bare minimum sense) for and thus earned in the way many need to earn them to feel good about them

3) He could lose his job (which could also result in depression)

4) As already noted, that he could let other people down and I don't like seeing a child doing that if the other people had *reasonable* expectations

LazyBum201

> Most super-achievers I know would do their "work" even if they weren't paid and they had to get a day job to support their interests.

True, and our son feels he will always want to run his own company or have some other form of work (be it playing keyboard in a subway station or whatever), but *on his own terms* and those super-achievers are also doing things *on their own terms* - it is far easier to love your job if you dictate your job by owning the company...don't like doing taxes, hire an accountant; don't like dealing with email, have a secretary handle it; etc. Indeed, part of our son's motivation in becoming self-employed again is to be able to do things more on his own terms again.

I realize I can paint our son is a dismal light, and to be honest, it's not like he does *nothing* - he volunteers to do a bunch of things - he did the art that went on his dorm's alumni dinner concert program and on the mugs that each alumni got as a gift a couple of weeks ago and does tons of other volunteer work for his dorm such that he won an award for giving the most to the dorm the first year he was eligible for that award and he's only gotten still more active since; he teaches high school kids about his research and the math behind it every Saturday and is co-directing a summer program for high school kids to take college level academics (the current teaching is volunteer; the summer work will actually be with pay, but he would do it even if it weren't); he entertains people at various functions by playing all sorts of instruments (sometimes three simultaneously, which got the most applause at a recent concert; he also plays somewhat unusual instruments for people to play like the bowed psaltry, and instrument he bought himself, and the slide whistle); he creates rather nice birthday cards for friends, and so on. It's more that someone suggesting or instructing him to do things doesn't motivate him like following through on his own ideas does.

3xcharmed

How old is your kid? from your first post I thought he was twelve.

alh

Lazy: sounds like your kid is a lot of fun and that being his mom has been an exciting adventure!

LazyBum201

charmed, did you mean my son? Not sure as my first post noted: "He graduated at age 13" (so I wouldn't think people would read it and think he was twelve).

In any case, he is 16 now.

And alh, overall, I feel our son is a lot of fun (not just to me, but people in general; I noticed early in his life that people looking at him in the background of photos just listening to him speaking to others were smiling, and he does get invited to a lot of things such that he often can't make lots of things that he'd like to, like he has a grad student or faculty BBQ invitation and a teen party invitation for tomorrow and will likely just do one rather than try to juggle them as they are being held in far apart locations) and being his mom has certainly been a surreal, exciting adventure. I think my being his mother has been the same for him, though, as I'm a pretty wild person who likes to do a lot of different things and so he's had experiences he wouldn't have likely had if he hadn't happened to just have me as one of his parents. And I have also raised him to do some mundane things to just help out, like as a kid, I brought him along with me when I volunteered to pack gift bags for artisans of a town arts festival and to stuff envelopes for a community newsletter and so tonight, he asked me if I would rather attend a debate competition in memory of a guy he knows from debate team who died a year ago or stuff envelopes for an organization he is active in (rather than hide that the organization could use help stuffing envelopes and just attend the debate they wanted to attend, as I suspect some teens would) as both start at the same time, and I figure we'll go to the debate and then the place where the envelope stuffing is taking place as odds are that will last longer than the debate and it would be nice to honor the deceased debate team member. For some things, at least, I think my being his parent has worked out okay.

3xcharmed

Lazy, I asked his age because if you said he was 25 (sorry, I'm scanning your posts so haven't picked up every detail) I would have said he needs to get his act in gear. But his behavior sounds like that of a typical 16 year old, in a very non-typical situation. Maturity comes with age and he has a few years to go. When he is 25 and missing deadlines and meetings, the boss might not be so accommodating.

mammall

I HATE the gifted label!!!

LazyBum201

Charmed, I think people in his field will, sadly, still be plenty forgiving of missing deadlines and oversleeping and such as *everyone* (and I do mean *everyone*, even females who have a stereotype of being good about being on time, doing work on time, etc.) at his lab (and I am now getting the feeling also at other top school labs in science and professionals who attend conferences around the globe in his area of study) does the same sort of nonsense and FAR WORSE. When our son was 8, he was on a panel for the Smithsonian/White House Millennium Celebration and one of the ADULT grad students overslept the rehearsal for the to be aired live panel and showed up only minutes before the camera started rolling. So even our very first encounter with people from his lab gave us a hint of what could be to come, but we had back then just figured, "Wow, it's amazing that he isn't being fired" (and he did get his Ph.D. and start his own company). Yesterday was the thesis submission deadline for our son's department and our son handed in his thesis at around 10:15 AM (it had to be handed in person to the lab administrator before she left work that day, so he was hours from the true deadline, though this still seemed close to me). He was told he was the first to hand it in who had followed directions and sent in his electronic copy to the library and the lab first, and only one other person had handed it in at all yet. At 4 PM, he attended an ice cream party for his lab (they usually have tea at 4 PM on Fridays, but this was special due to it being the end of the term) and he was in a group with four fellow master's candidates when he was asked if he had submitted his thesis; it turned out the other four had all gotten extensions till August to graduate in September or something and that at his lab, it is the rare student who actually graduates on schedule in June.

So people always are saying this procrastination, oversleeping, etc. is just a maturity thing, but sorry, I think it's an endemic "able to get away with it" thing for graduate students and at many labs (not even just our son's). And from what I've heard about and seen with my own eyes on visits to his campus, he is way out in front as far as being *more* on the ball than the others in general (yes, actually far MORE mature than most of even far older ages). But this could be because the others have just had more time to keep getting away with more and more outrageous behaviors.

When our son and the post doc and the guy with several master's degrees all missed their flight to a business meeting due to chatting physics and not paying attention to the plane boarding, I said to him, "Well, enjoy this trip as you are all going to be fired after this debacle."

He laughed and said, "That's just silly. We haven't been hired because we catch planes on time. We've been hired because we're good engineers and they'll keep us on." And sure enough, they renewed their sponsorship! :O

So I fear this could be a lifelong "shaping" going on, though our son said yesterday that he feels he can still change back to being on the ball but that this could take a few years to no longer be a procrastinator.

bcnmom

Garland, I couldn't say it better myself. Mine is still in high school, and lazy as the day is long. No work ethic, drives me crazy, BUT I love the way his mind works and wouldn't trade it for anything. Maybe he'll be the best-read gas station attendant in the world, and I'll just have to be O.K. with it. I'm working on it.....

BTW, if this seems out of context, it is because I was replying to post #41---sorry!

worldlywise247

post 10, its a good thing that there is inherent positive specialness implied. because the gifted are special in a positive way. it seems that the main problem with the label is the jealousy of parents. the kids will always no who is smart, labels or no. so, the label is not going to cause the feeling of downtrodden-ness on the part of the rest of the class. it is attitudes like those on this thread that cause downtrodden-ness on the part of the gifted, who feel disliked and like they have to hide their abilities

also, its important to recognize the various levels of gifted-ness. there are the gifted who most of the special programs are designed for, and the highly and profoundly gifted. it is the profoundly gifted who will be underachieving. not because they can't do the work, but because they can do it all to well and see no point in doing something that they learned years ago.

SJTH

To heck with the "Gifted" and "Brilliant" kids: what about their "Exceptional" and "Amazing" parents??????