Northstarmom

"Obama was an organizer on the South Side *before* going to law school. (Or perhaps my memory is faulty.) "

It actually was after he went to law school, which shows a big commitment to helping people who are underserved. After all, as president of Harvard Law Review, he could have gone to any high paying corporate law job in the country. Instead, he chose to be a community organizer -- a low paying, low visibility job that doesn't get lots of respect from people who graduate from places like Harvard Law.

vicariousparent

1of42: It is like saying that "he only wins because of all the blacks".

He may also win in November "because of all the blacks" who will turn out to vote this time, as opposed to prior years when the turnout is low.

Obama is not a very "black" guy, in my book. He's really mixed up- part black, part white, part native son, part expat, almost an immigrant. He is really the face of today's America.

poetsheart

Tega, I watched the above linked Michele Obama interview twice and listened very carefully. What exactly did she say that offended you so? I have my own take on what I think she was trying to say, but I'd appreciate hearing your take before I respond.

I don't think Hillary was being racist or even "playing the race card". What she was doing was pointing out Obama's very real weakness, concerning voter demographics in certain states. I agree with her statement that, "These are the people you have to win if you're a Democrat in sufficient numbers to actually win the election." It's a valid point.

What she fails to do, however, is acknowledge her own very real electability weaknesses. Neither does she acknowledge that Obama's current demographic weaknesses can be overcome. Once there's just a single Democrat running against McCain, all bets are off. Anything can happen between now and November.

Mr Payne

I agree. Carrying the black vote in the primary campaign is uncorrelated with success in the general election (it might even be negatively correlated!). Democrats always win 90% of the black vote in the general campaign, they don't need to fight for the vote (this is obvious from the data). They also do not need to fight for the liberal votes, as Democrats always dominate the liberal vote compared to Republicans. They do need to fight for the white independent middle class vote. Having the candidate which can best win that vote virtually guarantees an election win.

The only convincing argument for Obama is that he can counteract the loss in white middle class votes by bringing in new voters (younger ones, specifically).

This is based on the current race today and should not be viewed as a prediction for the next few months. Obama might convince White Middle Class America that he actually is the candidate for them (he's not doing that currently).

Mr Payne

Incorrect. The "face" of America is white (ie: ~65% of the country is White).

Consolation

3bm103, don't go there. White people can quite easily understand it. Yes, Obama was raised by his white family, but every stranger who looked at him saw a black person. (It reminds me of what someone--Cornell West, I think?--said about how the cab drivers who wouldn't pick him up on rainy nights in Manhattan didn't see a professor in a suit, they saw a black man.)

I don't know what your race or gender is, but I hope you aren't totally defined by them and I hope you aren't so lacking in empathy and imagination that you can't imagine what it is like to be something else.

1of42

You're right, that's exactly what it's like saying. However, it's true - Obama does win because of the black vote. Don't know if he "only" wins because of that, but it's certainly a huge contributing factor.

Now, you may be right in your latter point, and he may win in November for the same reason. But that is a valid counter-argument to bring up on that point - calling Hillary racist for bringing up the really valid demographic question is not.

I'm sorry to rain on the victory parade here, but these demographic and electability questions are very valid. I don't know what the answers are, and it may be that Obama could sweep the election and carry much of the white middle class vote, but in a nomination contest as incredibly close as this, it is not "racist" or "desperate" to bring the questions up - it is pragmatic and necessary.

Hanna

"The only convincing argument for Obama is that he can counteract the loss in white middle class votes by bringing in new voters (younger ones, specifically)."

The only one? Another convincing argument for Obama is that a lot of white working people don't vote in Democratic primaries, and within that group, there are literally millions of voters who hate Hillary with a white-hot passion. It doesn't really matter whether that hatred is justified or not. They'll pay money, ring doorbells, and practically walk over broken glass to vote for her opponent in November. Obama has a chance with these voters, who may give him a genuine listen. They've made up their minds about Hillary, and they will not even listen to her pitch.

barrons

For some strange reason this election has turned many of us H haters around on her. Compared to BO she seems far less smug and more likable. I can't really explain it but I used to detest her--now I don't.

fundingfather

barrons, I tend to agree. I think it might be the underdog factor. It used to be that the press was solidly in the Hillary camp and they have now turned on her and fallen at the feet of Obama. While part of me sees this as poetic justice for the Clintons to get a dose of their own medicine, the part of me that empathises with the person vilified by the media (which is usual the one with the "R" behind their name), makes me want to root for her.

momofnewP

in Dreams From My Father Obama says he was between undergraduate and law school when he was a community origanizer. He may have continued that after law school grad. also, but he was working as an organizer when he received his acceptance to Harvard Law School.

poetsheart

Snug, huh? How about uppity? Does uppity work for you, too?

xiggi

Less smug and more likeable? Even Rush Limbaugh is developing a liking for her persona. Or does he? As far as I am concerned she still wears an abject mask of complete hypocrisy that is nothing but a façade.

razorsharp

If you really want to see the race card played, wait until Obama gets the nomination. He will spend every waking moment trying to get McCain to say something that can even remotely considered racist and then his staff will scream McCain is a racist, even though he is not.

DSC

Here is my problem with what she said:

If she said working class white americans - no problem at all. However, to blatantly infer that the wealthy, educated, black, or any other 'Obama' group are not hard working is offensive. Her consituency is mostly retired people and women(a large portion of whom are homemakers). Both of these groups are worthy of our respect, but to claim that Obama's supporters are not hard working people(who apparently are only middle/lower class white people) is offensive.

And this constituency that she 'owns': she BARELY wins. In Indiana - under $15,000 (42/58 Obama); 15-30 (56-44 Clinton); 30-50 (51/49 Clinton); 50-75 (52/48 Clinton); 75-100 (49/51 Obama); 100-150 (54/46 Clinton). It isn't a very convincing argument if the other candidate does just as well as you do.

She did win whites 60/40. But looking at the quite similar example of Wisconsin - Obama won 54/45 among whites. It has not been proven that Obama cannot win among white voters.

Hillary's main constituency(no matter what she may say) is women - who are primarily democratic anyway. Obama's best constituency is blacks - who are primarily democratic.

What Obama brings to the democratic party is that he brings out black voters and new voters, who traditionally do not vote as much as other groups. He is also exceptional at fundraising. These traits not only signal potential electoral strength, but also a large 'down ticket' benefit - which is incredible important with the Census(and the redistricting that will come from that) coming in 2010.

Clinton is stronger in a larger demographic - but she has not demonstrated that she can bring in new voters. As the democratic party has proven in the past 2 elections - it needs something new.