bz2010

Hmmm - with all these examples of Liberal "Swiftboating" being thrown out there, we can't underestimate the dems ability to "play dirty".

Furthermore, the "Swiftboating" of Kerry was done by a small faction of mixed-party former shipmates - not as a concerted action by the party in general. If Kerry had been a stand-up guy, it never would've happened.

Three purple hearts for a couple of scratches? Give me a break! Throwing his medals away as a political statement then lying about it? Testifying before Congress that his fellow military members were criminals & committing war crimes? Then having the gall to paint himself as a war hero after such a short time in-country - "John Kerry reporting for duty"?? What an insult!

John Kerry's own actions did him in - he himself gave all the ammo to the swiftboaters.

spideygirl

HINDOO: "Give me an instance when the Democrats have "swift-boated" someone as obscenely as the Republicans did John Kerry in 2004. "

Where have you been for the last eight years???

Let me see...George Bush is as stupid as Curious George and looks like him as well (no outrage from CNN then, however - you could put that on t-shirts and worse), he entered into a conspiracy to blow up the World Trade Center, he is in Iraq for oil, his isn't even really president (Cheney makes all of the decisions), he is really just a drunk, he lied to get us into this war, he doesn't care that innocent young people are being killed, his dad got him in Andover, Yale, and Harvard (and OUT? - I guess that means 41 paid liberal faculty to pass the kid?) , he purposely sat and read to little children while the 9-11 attacks continued, he spends all of his time on vacation in Texas (because they have no modern technology there? - no phones, no computers, etc.?), his daughters were privileged party girls while in college, etc.

Does any of that ring a bell?

I was pretty shocked at how harsh we were towards Bill Clinton. The disrespect shown towards candidate and President Bush brought it to a whole new level. At the very least, it has been just as bad. Frankly, I'm sick of all of it. Yeah, I pay attention to the big stuff, but when it becomes nothing more than smearing for the sake of smearing, I tune it out.

I fear that most politicians and their politicos don't give a darn about you or me. They seem to be a very self-centered bunch, as a rule.

RatedPG

love your posts spideygirl.

spideygirl

post69 by sunnymamere: "Obama can triple my taxes, since I have draft age children. doubt anybody will argue Obama will have our precious children at war for a longer period than McCain. TEN YEARS!"

In his most recent tape, Osama Bin Laden complained that some Arab leaders have decided to accept Israel and to work with the West. Why is that? It is because we have fought back (finally) against those who attacked the USS Cole, our embassies, our troops in Somalia, one of the twin towers in the FIRST attack, and then finally both WTC towers, domestic airlines, and THE PENTAGON.

I have a son who will reach the draft age soon. NO - I don't want him to go to war. I don't want anyone's son to go to war. But history is a good teacher, and if we study it we quickly realize that (paraphrase) we can sleep soundly in our beds at night because brave soldiers have the courage to fight to protect freedom.

Can you imagine how many of our children could be killed if the wrong types of people get beyond our control?



Let's have a reality check about military deaths:

How many US soldiers were killed during the Clinton administration?

1993-1,245

1994-1,109

1995-1,055

1996-1,008

Total: 4,417


Now consider the number of soldiers who have been killed in Iraq - DURING A WAR!

I don't know what you think Obama is going to do to prevent soldiers from being killed, but I do not believe your assumption is correct that he will certainly keep more of them alive than McCain.

I would trust a guy who has experience fighting in a war, who knows how much it hurts to be seriously injured, and who has lost friends to gunfire, WAY more than a junior congressman who has never worn a uniform.

BTW, I might be voting for John McCain, but it is only because I have no better choice. I am very socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I am not a fan of McCain's. I am not a fan of George Bush either.

edvest1

Spideygirl, freedom of speech in America means you can trash your president without basis and suffer no consequences. We live in a great society and you know it.

I find your accusations comical at the least and bizzare at extreme:

...he (Bush) entered into a conspiracy to blow the World Trade Center
( this speaks for itself )

...he is in Iraq for oil (how come we are paying $3.65 gal ) ?

...sat and read to little children while 9-11 (does a pre-arranged visit mean
anything to you)

...Cheney makes all of the decisions (really ?)

LaxAttack09

I'm still amazed that there are people out there who think that one party is worse than another. Really, you honestly think the democrats have never engaged in something like this? I say anything is fair game, as long as it actually happened (such as Michelles comments of the furlong of Horton). I'm not OK with making up stories w/o the backing of any credible source, but if you do something (Dukakis) or say something (M. Obama) it's fair game.

You really think we're not going to see comments come out about McCain and his tapes he made while POW in vietnam? You think we're not going to hear about his 100 year quote out of context? Grow up, neither party is better or more civilized then the other.

1of42

edvest1, are you living in the same reality as the rest of us? Take a re-read of spideygirl's post, using the critical reading skills you hopefully possess, and then you can make a contrite post and apologize for totally missing the part where spideygirl explains she is merely reiterating some accusations she sees being made by certain liberals. Then you can apologize for using your finely honed "shoot first, comprehend later" skills that are normally received for making haphazardly ridiculous posts making all kinds of hilarious accusations against "liberals" to try and attack a poster (spideygirl) based on your total misreading of her post.

spideygirl: Most of what you posted you are quite right about being total bull. But there are a few nuggets of truth:

1) Bush's father certainly did help him get into college. But the same is true of any number of Dems, so I don't think it's a particularly horrible thing. As for how Bush graduated? Well, it's not particularly hard to graduate a college like Yale that has grade inflation with Cs.

2) An unfortunate loss on the reins of power has been a central hallmark of the various failure of management in this administration. One would argue that, even if we had (for example) gone into Iraq, had Bush had a better handle on people who were supposed to be advising him instead of pushing their own agendas, it might have turned out better. Cheney's not the de facto power or anything, but the admin has certainly got managerial issues.

Personally, though, while I don't think the Democrats are clean of this by any means, the major difference I see is that the Republican party, through consultants like Rove, have the practice much more institutionalized and are better at it, as well as being more willing to use it. Most of the type of crap that spideygirl pointed out comes from extreme left idiots like Michael Moore - whereas a significant amount of the attacks on Democratic candidates comes from people very close to the centers of Republican power.

parent2noles

The Democrats wish they had an evil genius like Rove. They had a few during the reign of Clinton the First, but those folks moved on.

bz2010

As an addendum to my previous post about how Presidential candidates should be able to withstand anything being thrown at them while running for office, it should be understood that once elected, we should afford the President the respect that comes with the position.

Yes, I know, political cartoons & criticism are part of the landscape, but sometimes it goes too far. Where do you draw the line? Don't know, but it does seem like respect for the presidency has eroded over the last few administrations.

Maybe it's just respect for others in society in general has diminished, but it is disheartening to see some of the ridicule of our president & others ("Betrayus").

Too bad GWB didn't get the presidency he probably envisioned - would've liked to have seen him handle the job under better circumstances.

originaloog

Re swiftboating, a number of Republicans made a video claining MCCain as a Viet Nam collaborator. The republicans include Dornan, Bob Smith and James Lucier. This swiftboating video is making the rounds on the internet. How interesting.

spideygirl

edvest1: "I find your accusations comical at the least and bizzare at extreme"

You missed something, Edvest.

spideygirl

Originalloog, your link may get deleted. I am on my way out and haven't even looked at it yet, but you need to give the title of the video and describe where people can find it if it does. CC doesn't allow links to places like YouTube (this recently happened to me)

Hondu

in the face of hate and the evil genius of the Republicans, the 91 year old Senator Robert Byrd who endorsed Obama today, is a great example of CHANGE. "Si se puede." This man was a KKK wizard and also campaigned against the civil rights legislation in the 1960s..

"Sen. Robert C. Byrd, D-W.Va., endorsed Barack Obama for president shortly after noon today, focusing on his hope to end the Iraq War.

"As people all across this great nation know, I have been one of the most outspoken opponents of the Bush administration's misguided war in Iraq and its saber rattling around the globe," Byrd said.

He said he had "no intention of involving myself in the Democratic campaign for President in the midst of West Virginia's primary election. But the stakes this November could not be higher."

Byrd praised both Obama and Hillary Clinton, saying their "integrity, honor, love for this country and strong belief in our Constitution I deeply respect...

"Barack Obama is a noble-hearted patriot and humble Christian, and he has my full faith and support," Byrd concluded.

The Charleston Gazette - Latest News - Byrd endorses Obama for president*

Hindoo

"Where have you been for the last eight years???

Let me see...George Bush is as stupid as Curious George and looks like him as well (no outrage from CNN then, however - you could put that on t-shirts and worse), he entered into a conspiracy to blow up the World Trade Center, he is in Iraq for oil, his isn't even really president (Cheney makes all of the decisions), he is really just a drunk, he lied to get us into this war, he doesn't care that innocent young people are being killed, his dad got him in Andover, Yale, and Harvard (and OUT? - I guess that means 41 paid liberal faculty to pass the kid?) , he purposely sat and read to little children while the 9-11 attacks continued, he spends all of his time on vacation in Texas (because they have no modern technology there? - no phones, no computers, etc.?), his daughters were privileged party girls while in college, etc. Does any of that ring a bell?"

Yes. While I don't for a minute think Bush was involved in a "conspiracy" to bomb the World Trade Center, some of the other points sound about right.

spideygirl

Okey Dokey, Hindoo.

You have supported my point that neither side holds higher ground when it comes to smearing the other, and distracting voters from the real issues.