munchkin

No, I am fronting only tuition, books, bus fare and meals, which she is supposed to be responsible for half and pay us back eventually after graduation. Clothing, entertainment, ie. spending money is her own, and she gets it from her savings from working last summer, monetary gifts from her grands.

ADad

In other words:

I gather that your agreement with her was something like "you can spend half of your earnings now and save the other half for a good future purpose such as college."

If she controls the half of the money that she earned, such that she is spending it whenever she wants to, then she really did not "save" it.

I appreciate that she needs the grown-up opportunity to manage her finances. That is what she has been doing with "her" half of the money that she earned. But, if she is not applying the "saved" half towards college or something else that you consider worthwhile, then she is violating her agreement with you. "Grown ups" do not violate their financial agreements.

If you cannot regain control of the "saved" thousands, then imo consider telling her "Look, the $X thousand you have saved up is supposed to be your contribution for college. Therefore, I am reducing my tuition support for you by that $X thousand. If you decide to spend that money, you won't have enough for tuition. If you want more spending money, you must earn it, not dip into your college savings."

Something like that imo, you would know best how exactly to set things up if you wanted to go in this suggested general direction.

For the future, I would suggest consideration be given to requiring that she turn over half of her earnings to you to be put in a separate account for her but in your name and under your control--to be saved for college or other good long-term purpose that meets with your approval.

**************

Good move imo about requiring student loans!

asdfjkl1

Hmm. You can make her pay more considering that her brother is in HS and she's in college. That way, the whole rent thing works out.

munchkin

Adad:

We never thought it through that carefully. Our thoughts are whatever she makes is her own to spend, but she is supposed to pay her half of tuition, books, bus fare after graduation, not before. We were never very clear with her about it, we don't even know ourselves. I don't think she is ever going to make a lot of money in summers, all the jobs she had pay about $11 - $12/hr, oftentimes less. The doctor's job offer $9/hour and it's shift work, so she does not get to work 40 hours. It's not the money issue honestly, it's the work ethic and motivation issue for me, though of course we never let on to the kids.

You have good suggestions about her savings but my first reaction is that it required more control over the kid than I want to at this stage. Sigh, if that's what good for her maybe that's what it has to be. My husband and I have to be on the same page on this. I know he does not want to take over her money. In our family mom is the mean one, controlling and all.

munchkin

asdfjkl1: her brother is actually older than she is. It's not his fault he is behind her. I have to be careful about this, she has complained before we don't treat them fairly.

ucsd_ucla_dad

Munchkin:
If you drop a hammer on your foot and it hurts, you're supposed to not drop the hammer on your foot again (unless you like being hurt).

You got her a job. She quit. You got frustrated.
You got her another job. She quit. You got more frustrated.
Now you're talking about getting her another job. See the problem here?

You're also taking about paying a few thousand to an agency to find her an internship. I don't even understand this one at all. Let her get her own internships and she shouldn't be paying anyone to get it for her. I haven't heard of anyone paying someone thousands to get an internship. I have little doubt that if you did pay thousands for this (which makes no sense at all) she'd just end up quitting.

I actually think maybe you should lighten up on all this. It might be irritating to see her sleep until noon but it's not the end of the world. If it were me, I'd firstly make her pay for her own entertainment, clothes, etc. and I'd encourage her to get a job or internship (HER get it - not you) but I wouldn't get into a fight over it. I wouldn't charge her rent for the summer and would stick with the original plan for paying for college. Let her veg for awhile if that's what she wants - maybe she'll get bored or get tired of seeing her savings dwindle.

swimcatsmom

I think you need to let your daughter do her own job getting. My just turned 19 year old daughter is on her 3rd summer job (over 3 summers - not this summer ) - we have never got her any of the jobs. I drove her to her first interview because she did not have a drivers license yet. We did also drive her to the interview for her current job because it was a 1000 mile drive there and 1000 miles back and she had to go over a weekend and get back for college. That was the extent of our involvement. Searching for, finding, and choosing the jobs, completing applications and resumes, getting references, doing interviews were all her choice and her responsibility.

munchkin

First, please everyone understand,

I DO NOT PAY FOR HER ENTERTAINMENT OR CLOTHING .

Sorry I capitalized because it seems like somehow most posters seem to think I do and I find myself clarifying this point again and again.

The paying for an agency to get good internship idea came from an article I came across once, I couldn't even remember where now because at it was at the beginning of this year and the idea did not go down well with me at that time. That article said some parents pay agencies to get some great, hard to secure internships for college students. An investment banking with Goldman ? An interesting job in a non-profit ? I can't even remember all the details now, just that fact these agencies exist, just like regular job agencies, they have contacts with the right companies that produce the right kind of experience. The article said it was immensely helpful in helping a graduate getting choice jobs because of the right internship experience. The one agency that was mentioned said they charge about $3000 per placement. I didn't like the idea one bit at that time so I didn't save the link. But now, having my daughter lazing around is bugging me so I am thinking it may be less annoying for me in paying an agency to get a job for her, though of course I wonder how good is this for her development.

And, as someone pointed out, she may not work at it because she didn't get it herself. Though, if I remember right, the agency work with the student to figure out what kind of internships/jobs they want first before trying to secure a placement.

Swimcat: great that your daughter find her jobs, if she does not, what will you do ?

calmom

I have never given my college age kids money for books or transportation. Bus fare and books can easily come out of earnings, especially for a kid with a cushion of money saved from earlier years.
The way the rest of us do this is we only pay the college Bursar our agreed amount. The balance has to come from loans. No "fronting"... just sign on the dotted line.

It sounds like you are "fronting", "loaning", and enabling every step of the way. The way to expect a child to be responsible for costs is to expect them to pay up front. I think if I were in your situation I would be asking that my live-at-home daughter help out with the groceries. Certainly when my college age son has been home I've expected him to do some of the shopping, from his own funds.

I did have my son lazing around my house one summer when I wanted him working.... very long ago. I told him a date: either he had to be employed by that time or move out. I didn't do anything beyond that. (Actually, I did -- when he got the job but didn't have a car I drove him to the transit station every morning & evening... I was happy to do my part .... but I certainly didn't go out job hunting for him. The most I would ever do for either of my kids would be to pass on info if I saw a listing -- example: "there's a help wanted sign up over at the pizzaria" Usually the kids were ahead of me on that one - "oh, they're looking for a delivery person who has a car.").

munchkin

Who is the rest of us you are referring to ? No one here fronts for their children ?

Where we lived most kids get a free ride, we are actually considered quite strict/harsh. It is unfortunate that my daughter is not as proactive I want her to be.

ucsd_ucla_dad

munchkin:

I know you stated you didn't pay for her entertainment, etc. - I was just emphasizing it. Maybe your D just doesn't spend much money but most girls her age still want to buy clothes, go to the movies, drive a car (and thus buy gas), etc.

Thanks for the info on the article about the 'internship agencies'. Regardless, I'd be wary of spending any money on an agency for this purpose. I'd like to see other posters' opinions on this but generally these companies, including Goldman Sachs, recruit at college campuses and offer internships to students without any charge. I'd find it hard to believe that companies would get internship 'leads' from agencies. It just doesn't make any sense. Both of my Ds have obtained internships but these were from campus recruitment.

munchkin

ucsd_ucla_dad:

She pays for her own clothing. She has really learned to control her expenses since high school. Gone were the days of discarding barely worn SFAM jeans. I am sure she made some thrift shoppers very happy with our donations.
Instead of shopping every weekend I think she barely shops now, maybe once a semester. She asked us if we would go shopping over the long weekend and I even said no. She is a popular girl, she has friends who drives her and maybe even pay for her movies. In high school that was certainly the case and I am left with the option of not letting her socialize. Just plain forbidding her to go out with her friends.

I have received some good ideas and I will try to work it into our lives. Perhaps she will get the job at her interview on Monday and I won't be so mad anymore.

I really try not to get too involved with their lives and allow them space to grow up. I was not too involved at the college application level and the consequence was that she didn't get any kind of scholarship, which was our loss. Only when someone with a nephew who had comparable results to hers said he got a full ride to a college did I figure out she could probably have gotten one. She only applied to two colleges, because she didn't "want to write so many essays". When asked to apply to more she said, "I know I am going to be accepted at XYZ and I already know I want to go there, so why should I bother ?"

calmom

If we are paying things for our kids, we pay out right. If we want our kids to take loans, we have them take loans. If we want them to pay a share out of earnings or their own savings, we have them make the payments.

It is the whole concept of "fronting" where you are doing something different.

Apparently, you have had the idea of paying for things and telling your kids that they are "owe" you at some unspecified future time, and you think that is making the kids take responsibility. It isn't. Either you pay or they pay, whether it is in the form of cash up fronts or loans they take out in their names. In some circumstances parents might cosign loans (I don't, but it's another way around it).

You have been paying everything for your kids and apparently rationalizing based on the concept that the kids are morally obligated to pay you back. But that's not the message you are sending -- they know full well that they don't really have to pay back the money. (Is there a promissory note? Have you given them a regular accounting of what they "owe"? Is there a due date?)

It doesn't sound like you ask your d. to contribute much around the home, either. She is living rent-free, eating your food, etc. And with all of that, you have still been paying her bus fare!

There are other parents around who pay for everything, but I don't think there are others who rationalize it in quite the way you do. When I "front" money it is in the context of getting paid back within hours or day. If the payment isn't going to come right away, then I am "paying", not "fronting". The main context I've done this with my daughter was with credit cards -- I'd put something on my card that she needed to pay, or she would charge something on her card that I needed to pay -- and we'd settle up with each other the day the bill arrived.

calmom

A note about employment:
When you line up work for your daughter, or if you hire an agency -- you are robbing her of the chance to develop her own job-hunting skills. Finding a job is hard work - it requires affirmative effort to look for job openings, preparing a resume, filling out job applications, going to interviews, networking to develop new contacts, following up with prospective employers to find out the status of an application, etc. Doing all of those things effectively are a skill in themselves, one honed only through practice. If a parent arranges for a job for their kid... then all of those steps are skipped, and the kid never learns how to go about finding a job.

I can see why your daughter would turn down the jobs you arranged -- I think I would have done the same in her place. I did once arrange a job for my daughter, but she was 14 years old and I asked her first whether she would want that job, and I think that was after she told me that she wanted to get a summer job.

jude_36

I agree with the posters that say you should back away. It IS frustrating to see your child not taking advantage of opportunities you've worked to get for them, but she is... 20? She's an adult. If she wants to spend her savings for her living expenses, you really can't stop her. At SOME point, she'll run out of money, or she'll run out of people who will pay for her movies for her, or she'll just plain old realize that not working isn't that much fun.

I think all you can do is decide what you are willing to do for her financially, let her know that very clearly, and then stick to that decision, whatever it is.

I didn't work the summer before my freshman year of college, because I figured it was the last summer that I'd be able to be a slacker. I'd always worked, babysitting and then summer jobs and miscellaneous stuff like house cleaning during the school year. I talked to my parents about it and they weren't thrilled, but they 'let' me.

My daughter is working three jobs this summer to raise money for her college.

There are all kinds of reasons for the decisions that we make, you just have to decide what your comfort level is. That also includes telling her to go back to the dorms if that's what you're more comfortable with.