Venado

Maybe kids should go to safe places like Virginia Tech.

hudsonvalley51

To condemn the entire city of Philadelphia as unsafe because of this tragedy is way over the top. There are few cities in America where it is a good idea to take a one mile walk alone at 1:30 in the morning through a marginal neighborhood. I know the area where this occured and -- 1) I would strongly discourage my kids from living there, 2) I would tell them never to walk alone at night and 3) if they couldn't get a ride home with a co-worker at 1 am I'd either get them a car or make sure they had the money to take a cab.

And yes, there are neighborhoods like this -- and much worse -- in Boston, New Haven, New York City, Baltimore and Washington. Does that make these dangerous places to go to college? Not really, as long as you take reasonable precautions and don't stray into areas you are unfamiliar with.

MomofWildChild

audiophile- The self-defense class we just had at work actually advocates talking loudly on a cellphone while you are walking in a sketchy area.

aj725

I wasn’t implying that he was doing anything wrong -- he was just walking home after work. Is it a necessity for some to be out that late -- sure -- he needed to earn some money before his teaching job started and that was the shift that Starbucks gave him. However, he did take upon himself a significant risk of something happening. I was just saying that maybe he took that risk unknowingly esp. being from a smaller town -- not realizing that it isn’t a good idea to be out that late, even if you need the job and your roommate has just assured your parents that it's a "safe" area.

I'm sure this will be an unpopular view here, but I think parents are too supportive of kids wanting to save the world. Theoretically, it would be a wonderful idea to move to a city and teach the underprivileged. But in reality, you can't always make a decent enough salary to ensure that you can live in a reasonably safe area. So is it worth it??

hudsonvalley51

This thread is an interesting contrast to one in which the OP asked if it was OK to send her recent high school grad off to Paris for a week accompanied only by one of her girlfriends. The vast majority of posters thought there was nothing wrong with this and assured the OP that Paris was perfectly safe (except perhaps for pickpockets). I wouldn't compare Philly with Paris, but I would note that I have been in neighborhoods in Paris that make the Italian Market area look like Society Hill in comparison. Fact is, there are places you don't want to go in any large city.

Hanna

"you can't always make a decent enough salary to ensure that you can live in a reasonably safe area. So is it worth it??"

How many 23-year-olds in suburban and rural areas died in car accidents today? That's a much more common cause of death among law-abiding white college graduates than murder. Maybe we should encourage young people to move to the inner city, where they can walk home from work and avoid this more prevalent danger.

audiophile

I'm sure they know more than I do about this and are most likely correct. I was referring to kids who are distractedly talking and not paying attention to their surroundings. And that goes double for drivers!!

Oh, and back to the topic, FWIW: Campus and city crime rates decrease - News

ebeeeee

DS is in Boston. The other day he told me two "teenage punks" were "mad doging" him. He was laughing. Apparently that means they were staring him down and wanted his ipod. He is a mixed martial arts guy, gym rat and a big guy. He gave them a look and they backed down. Definitely pays to be aware of your surroundings at all times and not be alone unless you know you can back yourself up.

tsdad

Nicely said Hanna.

tsdad

Robert Morris U students MURDERED!
Duke University - Grad student murdered last night - lived off campus
The Badger Herald - UW junior found dead in Doty Street home; killer still at large
Fatal stabbing of UC Berkeley student reveals two worlds within one city - Los Angeles Times
FOXNews.com - UNC Chapel Hill Student Body President Found Shot to Death Near Campus - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News
Outrage in Newark after murder of 3 students - USATODAY.com
Teen Accused in Grad Student's Death|NewsChannel 8

mamabear1234

To add to the above post, there were 2 people shot near the Pitt campus last night at 2:30 AM. I worry, with a daughter heading off to an urban campus in August, but it can happen anywhere.

MichaelNKat

The Zabel killing is an horrific tragedy that tugs at the heart and shocks the senses. It is also a story that rivets the attention of the media and the public because of the sensationalist news value on one hand and the painful senselessness of his death on the other.

However, to proclaim Philadelphia as an unsafe place for students to live and go to school, for young professionals to live and work, represents either an hysterical sensationalism of a whole other sort or a superficial view of the city, perhaps both. The reality is that more than 145,000 college and graduate students live, go to school and play in center city philadelphia. You have Temple University, Drexel, Penn, University of the Arts, Moore College of Arts, The Art Institute of Philadelphia, University of Sciences, Curtis Institute, Academy of Vocal Arts, Pierce Junior College, Philadelphia Community College, various culinary institutes, Hanahmen Med School, Jefferson Medical School and others I'm sure I left off the list, all located within the confines of center city Philadelphia and its surrounding neighborhoods. Add to it the 10's of thousands of young graduates who obtain employment in Philadelphia. Go do the research; as another poster has commented, the likelihood of being a victim of violent crime is substantially less than the likelihood of having a motor vehicle accident. It is the exception, not the rule, that a college, graduate student or young professional will be the victim of a violent crime on the streets of Philadelphia.

Obviously that is not to say that it can't and doesn't happen. That's not to say that there are not neighborhoods where shootings and murders of innocent bystanders occur because of problems endemic to those neighborhoods. That's not to say that random and senseless acts of violence can't occur in neighborhoods where one would not expect it. And when these things do happen, it compels our attention and shocks our sense of decency, often causing feelings of doubt and insecurity about the community in which we live and work. However, the reality is that with the exercise of common sense, knowing what areas are safe and which are not, following common sense safety precautions even in safe neighborhoods, the chances of ever being the victim of a violent crime are slim. And the reality is that Philadelphia as a community and with a new vitality ushered in by the new mayor and his administration, has a renewed sense of purpose and commitment in addressing the prevention and underlying causes of these sad and unfortunate events.

Philadelphia is a vibrant and dynamic place for students and young professionals to live, go to school, work and play. For those who really spend their time in the city, you can see it every day. That's not to be naive about the problems that do exist, and there are many, but to broadly paint the city as a cesspool of violence simply begs reality.

emeraldkity4

It is the exception, not the rule, that a college, graduate student or young professional will be the victim of a violent crime on the streets of Philadelphia.

But if you look at major cities, where students may attend school- Philly seems to be the top city re: murder rate.
There's no evidence that banning guns cuts crime | Philadelphia Inquirer | 05/25/2008
Graduation & gunfire: Student shot in back minutes after ceremony | Philadelphia Daily News | 06/18/2008
2 killed, 3 injured in shootings across city | Philadelphia Daily News | 06/18/2008

I do not agree with the philosophy that since often those who are killed are not college students- it isn't relevant.

I would agree that daily life may require more vigilance in a city, to keep yourself and your belongings safe-but it shouldn't require heroic measures.

Threekids

Another bit of advice: I have the security phone number of my daughter's school on the refrigerator. If she calls me at night while she's walking from campus to her apartment or car, and G-d forbid anything happens, I can call security from 1200 miles away. She always starts the conversation telling me where she is and where she's headed. 911 wouldn't do me or her any good from here.

MichaelNKat

No where did I say that "since often those who are killed are not college students - it is not relevant." It obviously is. It is equally relevant that the vast bulk of the killings in Philadelphia occur in particular neighborhoods which have clearly identifiable community, socioeconomic and family issues that cry out for attention. The resources of the city must be directed to finding solutions to the underlying problems while providing immediate relief through responsive and effectivet policing and law enforcement efforts. And in fact that is occurring. There has been a 20% drop in killings so far this year, something that is extremely encouraging about the renewed efforts of the new administration.

At the same time, there is a very lopsided picture of Philadelphia which gets painted in the reactions of many posters on this Board. And since this Board is called "College Confidential" and most who visit take the info here, including many threads on the "Parent Cafe", as relevant to questions and issues concerning college, the experience of students and the quality of their lives in Philadelphia have particular relevance to the purpose of this Board.

And the reality is, notwithstanding the problems which do exist, the city is not a war zone, despite how some may choose to depict it. The reality is that hundreds of thousands of residents, including students, go about their daily lives without coming into contact with violence. Hundreds of thousands enjoy on a daily basis all of the superior social, cultural, artistic and other resources and opportunities the city has to offer without becoming victims of any crime, let alone violence. The reality is that for hundreds of thousands, Philadelphia is an enriching, rewarding and enjoyable city within which to work, study and play. Having attended Temple's law school, having a daughter who both attends a college and lives in center city and a son for whom the city is part of his playground, having maintained my office in center city for the past 30 years, having spent time in a broad variety of neighborhoods, good and bad, and coming in direct contact with a wide scope of experiences, I think I have a pretty good realistic understanding of what life in the city is all about. I find it ironic and telling that those who are the loudest to condemn the city either don't live here or have convinced themselves that it is necessary to live in fear. To the former, I say frankly you really have no direct knowledge on which to base your opinions. To the latter, it is a shame you have chosen to embrace the negative at the expense of all the positive that is there to enjoy. I hope your lives are not as dyspeptic and jaundiced as your words. Having visited, worked and lived in many cities on the east coast, it would be a real shame if students considering schools in Philadelphia went elsewhere because of your blinded vision and as a result missed the wealth of experience and opportunity that Philadelphia offers students.