toneranger

"True, I won't be able to sleep till he gets back, but being by myself for a few hours a couple of times wouldn't exactly be a tragedy"
You see, this is where I have a problem. How could he go out and do this on a Mom/son trip knowing that you'll be wide awake worrying about him?
My son visited Amsterdam recently. He told me all about his boat tour and visit the beer factory. I'm SURE he did more -not sure how much more - but that's his business really - he's 20. But I wasn't there losing sleep over it. His trip would surely be different if I was his travel partner.
I do understand what your saying about his isolation and his excitement about newfound freedoms. I just can't see him exploring this side of his life on a trip with his Mom! But yeah, I guess I'm the old-fashioned type. You get to do what you're comfortable with...and it sounds like you're are taking every possible precaution to make sure his safety isn't compromised. Although it's tempting to pass judgment, there really is no right or wrong here. Just different expectations and styles of parenting.
I wish you and your son a memorable, enjoyable and safe trip! Actually, now that I think about it, you're very lucky that he wants to go with you!

Granny

Two words. Natalie Holloway.

cptofthehouse

I think your idea of mom coming along on some of the activities is a good idea, Calmom. It upsets me when I see these examples of kids being so selfish. I have a few of them myself. When you are going on a trip with mom or dad, you don't want to do things that are going to have them worrying alone at the hotel. That is just a courtesy.

anxiousmom

Your son is still missing the "buddy has my back" going out by himself. Male or female, gay or straight, it is not safe to go drinking in bars without a buddy or two who will help look out for your best interests. Go to the daytime gay events, and drink a coffee while he chats with new friends nearby - but don't agree to let him go to bars alone!!!!! College is coming soon and he can find other out gay students there to hang out with and drink etc with.

Consolation

DonnaL, I think that he sounds like a wonderful boy, and I wish I could visit Rome with him! I think that you will be able to find ways for him to stretch his wings a bit but still be reasonably safe. (Like, forget riding public transportation at night!) I applaud you for being open to finding ways for him to do so. I remember all of those romantic movies about girls going to Europe and Experiencing Life, such as 3 Coins in a Fountain, and I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't what is running through his head, too. I think that with reasonable precautions he can have a bit of fun and still be safe enough to avoid turning Mom's hair gray. Best of luck to you both. Make sure you let us know how fabulous your trip was, so that we can all turn green with envy.

ScottZ1980

DonnaL, as a gay man, I know how your son feels by wanting to "experience" the nightlife scene. I was 20 when I went to GayDays at Walt Disney World. Having gone from never been to a gay club to partying with over 125,000 gay men and women sure opened my eyes LOL I went to my first gay club when I was 21 and wow was it an experience. I think the allure of being around a large group of mostly-good looking Italians, drinking, and enjoying the club atmosphere is really hard to pass up for anyone at his age. Especially when many clubs and bars are increasingly becoming 21 and up only. However, I think it's fair that you allow him the luxury of going out and enjoying himself for one night, but throughout the whole trip? I probably wouldn't advise that plus it is a bit selfish on his part to not want to spend time with you.

Your thread title did bring back memories of my "potentially unsafe plans" when I turned 18 and a group of friends from school decided to celebrate our graduation by going skydiving! I guess I "forgot" to tell my parents before hand...oops

The video my parents saw from that event sure didn't win me any brownie points

swatparent

It's a lot different going to "GayDays" at DisneyWorld with tons of security in a country where you speak the language, than being an 18 year old alone in a strange city not knowing the language and going to bars alone that could have anyone there, with any connection to street crime. But he would not know because he doesn't even speak the language.

I think that it is dangerous regardless of his sexual orientation. It also seems inappropriate for a family trip. Let him have his fun in bars next semester when a parent is not around.

Personally I would draw the line and protect him from these escapades. Let him go with a friend next summer.

mimk6

My 21 year old daughter and I went to Rome last summer. The second we got there her radar was up about safety, and she went to school in a very urban area and has a lot of street smarts -- Rome has an undercurrent at night that is unsettling. We were misled on more than one occasion about transportation. A bus driver deliberately dropped us off at the wrong stop and put us in an unsafe situation and our hotel concierge gave us wrong instructions about which stop that put us in a dark and empty neighborhood. After that, I spent the money on cabs. It is easy to get lost. I would, at the very least, suggest you have him only take cabs if he goes out at night. English is not as commonly spoken there as it is in some other European countries. Two years ago my then recently graduated from college son backpacked through Europe with a group of friends. I don't think they ever left each other unattended -- it's just basic common sense. Tourists are huge targets and being alone always makes one an even bigger target.

Hunt

"But insofar as my son's intentions go, where does all this nonsense about encouraging "sexual escapades" and "cruising for men" stuff come in? I didn't say anything remotely suggesting that that's what he wanted to do, and neither did my son to me. And, no, I'm not "encouraging" anything like that."

Actually, what you said suggests exactly that, just as a straight kid's desire to go out alone to nightclubs to "meet people and dance" would suggest something similar. In addition, what he says may not mean much after he's had a few drinks with somebody attractive.

middsmith

Two movies: Hostel and Hostel part 2.
American: $50k

DonnaL

I'm not going to argue with you. But may I suggest that perhaps, just perhaps, I know my son better than you do, and am not being naive when I say that, for him, dancing does not necessarily imply having sex? Sometimes, as they say, a cigar is just a cigar!

Many precautions will be taken. Promise! He isn't going *anywhere* by himself unless we've previously gone there together, at night, to see what the place is like, what the neighborhood is like, and how easy and safe the transportation would be between there and the hotel.

And please keep in mind that if I *do* think he's going to be safe (even though I understand that there'll never be guarantees of safety anywhere -- hey, I worry a little every time he borrows my car!), I have no problem whatsoever with his spending a couple of evenings by himself doing something fun, while I sit in my room and read. I should point out that he has always been very good about checking in by cellphone at pre-arranged times. Yes, this trip is intended for us to spend time together, but it's also a graduation present *to* him, and part of that is permitting him some independence, within the limits of safety.

The same holds true even during the day -- for example, if I want to spend a little bit of time looking around in clothing and jewelry stores, I'd much rather have him go off for a while and do something on his own, than have him with me, asking every 60 seconds if I'm done yet! (Don't worry, I'm not being serious here -- I understand the difference in the situations. I'm just trying to explain that we don't have to be joined at the hip!)

zoosermom

I'm sure that's all true, but most of us took the initial post the same way, so we're not nuts! Thank you for clarifying.

unalove

I think it's the idea of looking at cute guys that has more appeal than the act itself. I imagine, if I were in your son's shoes, I would go to the bar, have half a drink, look at all the cute men, dance a little bit, and then realize it's curfew.

It sounds like if this thing actually ever happens, there will be many, many, many precautions taking place. And yeah, there's that thing on the horizon called college, and college will make drinking, dancing, socializing, and cute gay guys a part of life. (OP should trust me on this one ;-))

swatparent

DonnaL: It sounds as if you are now comfortable with the plans for Rome?

SBmom

A "compromise" idea: hire someone (a tour guide) to accompany him. Find a college aged person who is familiar with the clubs and can act as a buddy.