ucsd_ucla_dad

I don't give money to beggars. Calling the beggars 'homeless' is a bit of a generalization since many of them aren't. I've encountered very few beggars who lack the physical capability to work although I know that many of them have some mental issues inhibiting being gainfully employed and many are addicted to drugs/alcohol. I'm one of those who feel that handing money to these beggars just exacerbates the problems, encourages more beggars (that's why they congregate in 'high yield' areas - like at entrances to colleges), and doesn't solve their issues assuming they actually have issues rather than just a desire to earn money by begging rather than working.

I've seen shows that have interviewed some beggars who've stated directly that they sometimes acquire dogs because they know it'll incent more people to give to them. They use the dogs as a prop. I don't think these dogs are always leading the best life (I doubt they're regularly taken to the vet or would receive required treatment) and I don't think people should reinforce the practice by giving money to the beggars just because they have a dog.

Likewise, many of these people will regularly use a crutch and limp around as a prop as part of their scam.

A certain number of the infirmities, if real, were acquired through living on the streets through festering sores, gangrene, accidents, etc. - i.e. the infirmity didn't necessarily cause the begging/homelessness but might have been a result of it. There are countless examples of people with infirmities who are employed productive members of society.

The beggars who are simpy begging for a living, with or without props, don't deserve any money or compassion IMO. The people who are begging because they have mental issues, addiction issues, or have truly entered some dire straights need to seek help that can reverse the situation, not enable it.

Consolation

<<"There were very few people that we came across who had that issue, and it was pretty easy to distinguish those who were ill and those who weren't."

Maybe it was easy to distinguish those who were floridly psychotic from those who were lucid, but how could you tell whether the lucid individuals were seriously disabled by depression, anxiety, personality disorders, etc.? If you could do that without a great deal of personal probing, you're way ahead of the psychiatric profession.>>

How very true. Many of the people who end up homeless have been "self-medicating" undiagnosed mental illness with alcohol or drugs since adolescence.

I know a woman who had been a professional baroque violin player and a craftsperson employed by George Lucas' Industrial Light and Magic, yet she ended up homeless due to mental illness. She pulled herself up out of that situation with an enormous amount of support from social services and family. Most people aren't able to do that.

I do not generally give money to people who are begging, since I regard it as unfortunately prolonging their situation since it enables them to avoid therapy, but I do cook dinner at the local soup kitchen once a month. It is very difficult to know what to do with the situation without involuntary committal, which obviously has its own problems.

padad

Consolation, I volunteered at soup kitchens for the past thirty years. I recalled distinctly the wave of homeless coming in after Reagan closed down state mental hospitals. I was at Detroit at the time. The closing of the Lafayette Clinic released hundreds of patients onto the street as homeless. The existing shelters were just overwhelmed. I took two of them in for over three weeks but couldn't sustained it longer. I had to drop them back to the shelter. I never did follow up on their fate, something I quite regret.

Yes, I still give money to street people. I am aware that much of it may go to alcohol or other drugs. But I do remind myself that I should not judge other's failings, and I do not believe many of them are capable of going back to a normal life.

bluealien01

There's a lady here who as soon as she gets enough money, goes into the local convenience store, comes out with a pack of cigarette's and lights up. Give her money? Not me. Smoking is not a life necessity.

barrons

The closing of mental hospitals was also strongly advocated by liberal groups.

Whatapainthisis

Is it about giving because you care or getting something for giving?

20 years ago, I was a teen girl who had fled her abusive home. I was backed into a corner because my mother would not leave my father. I don't blame here, she was a former foster child with no where to turn when her marriage went bad. When I was 14, I ran away and tried to get outside help at a teen shelter, but when my father arrived, he said -- "You come home, or get a PINS put on you."

So I went home and waited until I was 16 and could legally get out. I didn't do it right away, but I always made sure to have a job. I couldn't ask my father for anything, there was always a price to be paid for anything he did for me. One day things came to a head, and I had to leave. 2 weeks later, my mom left and went to a battered women's shelter, but they wouldn't let her bring me since I'd already left the home.

A friend's parent took me in briefly, promised to help me find an apartment, but when I did, I didn't realize it was beyond my means. So there I was, 17, a senior in high school with a part-time job, with an apartment that I could not really afford. Too young to get the gas turned on, no medical insurance, no contact with my mother or siblings, no option to return to my abusive father. I decided that if I had to, I'd live in a box or die first.

I tried so hard to keep up with the rent and go to school, but I couldn't. One day I came home to a 24 hour notice to vacate. A girl at work said I could stay for a couple of weeks while I got a job with more hours and a cheaper apartment.

One day I was in a convenience store, it was near Christmas, and I only had $2 for food. I kept looking at the macaroni and cheese, then the ramen, then the macaroni and cheese, trying to decide what to do.

I don't know what this man thought that he saw in me, but this stange man walked up, put $5 in my hand, and walked away without saying a word, without waiting to receive a thing from me even in terms of thanks. Because of that man, I was able to buy food for a week (granted, not the greatest). I will never forget the kindness of that man, and what he gave me was a lot more than $5.

So I worked so much that I missed half of my senior year of high school. I realized that I'd be a dropout, and at the last hour, I went to see the principal, a very imposing man. I told him what had happened to me, and begged him to let me take my exams, stating that I believed that I could pass them if given the chance. He looked at me and said "I don't have to let you return here, you've missed so many days that I don't legally have to. But if you come here every day for the next 2 weeks, you may take your exams."

And so I did, and I got my regents diploma. Later when I went on to college, I received a scholarship based on being a graduate from that high school. When I received my doctorate, I looked up my old principal and said "I wanted to let you know that you didn't make a mistake when you gave me that break. You didn't have to, but because of you, I went on to college and received a doctorate, and now help others. It wouldn't have been possible if it were not for you".

It's been a long time since I was the girl who had to eat in soup kitchens, who had to boil macaroni in an old fashioned coffee pot, and who had to sleep with an electric blanket because she had no heat.

During the times that I had to use a soup kitchen, had to use a food bank, etc., I never smoked, drank, or used drugs. In fact, I am vehemently against such substances because it is important to me that I control my own life.

As time has gone on, I can now look back on that girl sort of as someone else that I am observing in my mind. But I don't think that the fear of being hungry will ever go away, and I'll never forget the kindness done to me.

So when I give anything, I try to do so with no expectation of anything. To give is not supposed to be a transaction of "I do for you, you do what I say". It rarely effects real change. What does help is for a person who is broken to receive true unfettered kindness.

That all being said, I do have an uncle who is homeless "by choice", but who is likely mentally ill. Being foster children, my mother did not see him for most of their lives. But my mom frequents a public library and eventually they began to meet there a couple of times a week. She never knew how his week was, just hoped he'd come.

Any effort to invite him to eat with her, get help, etc. was met with resistance. Sometimes she'd give him small amounts of money, but she really could not afford to do so, and she eventually stopped. I didn't like that my mother was doing this, I suspected that he would spend it on booze. I personally put him in contact with someone who could give him a job and an place to live and he did not take it. He did take some clothes, that's about it. I just kind of accepted that he could not be helped by us. One day, he stopped coming for months. We checked the morgue, hospitals, etc.. Months later he returned to the library. My mother was upset and told him so. He disappeared again. It's now been over a year. She still takes a bus to the library in the hopes he'll show up.

The suspected root of his fear of "getting help"? An unpaid tax bill/warrant from when he ran a bookstore. It was only for about $700. But if he got a job, or applied for social services, the IRS would "come get him".

By the way, most homeless are mentally ill moreso than addicted. The addicted usually resort to crimes and go to jail or end up in county paid rehab, whereas the mentally ill may have the cognition to fear society and live homeless to avoid it.

By the way, can you fathom any circumstance in your life that would compel you to become homeless by choice? I can:

a) Sexual abuse of my child by the other parent and the fear that the Courts would not care and send the child to unsupervised access:

b) Fear of imprisonment, unjustified or not;

c) Disintegration of society to a point that I lost freedom as I perceive that to be. (Retreat to some log cabin, but I'd consider a remote island and foraging for food if I had to).

d) The threatened loss of my children over a trumped up CPS charge (happened to someone I know).

munchkin

I changed my mind recently about begging. I used to be more vigilant against scammers and question the effectiveness.

I spent a few months in Asia earlier this year. We were told not to give handouts to beggars, little boys and girls who make a good living begging will not go to school and make something of themselves, or their parents/guardians will exploit them. In Cambodia we came across land mine victims with no arms or legs, and women with their little girls and boys begging. To this day I can still see the hopelessness in their eyes and the despair in their faces. My philosophy has now changed to that I will give to all the beggars if I can. Sure they may be part of a gang, will they be beaten or starved if they don't make their quota ? Unless I am part of the solution of giving these poor people a viable alternative of living, I will give them a handout. I think I have seen enough of beggars now to identify the fakes or the ones who are really defeated by life. One little Vietnamese girl's begging haunt me to this day.

There were plenty of beggars on the magnificent mile in Chicago and fifth ave in NYC, if I have money to spare I will give them some.

munchkin

Whatapainthisis : your post moved me to tears. You are right, I give to panhandlers as much for myself as for them.

BCEagle91

"The closing of mental hospitals was also strongly advocated by liberal groups."

I was too young to understand what this meant when it happened but these can be quite horrible places. If you think about all of the control and money issues and the potential abuses in this kind of system, it isn't hard to imagine abusive care or negligent care. Not too far away from the kinds of things that can happen in prisons and nursing homes.

laxmom

While my situation was not as severe as Whatapainthisis' I do know what it was like growing up without...and being on the verge of homelessness.
If it wasn't for the kindness of strangers and local organizations, I'm not sure how we would've put food on our table.
No drugs, no alcohol in the family - just a father with severe heart issues (who later passed away at age 34) and a brother born with severe mental retardation and it didnt allow my stepmother to work outside the home.

With the increase in prices of everything and the foreclosures on the rise, families living paycheck to paycheck, I believe you will see a rise in homelessness.

I will continue to give - situation to situation. I'm paying it forward.

JoeTrumpet

I have really enjoyed the discussion so far. Thank you to everyone that shared stories about what they've seen or experienced regarding homelessness. It really is worth noting that while many people theoretically could just go to a shelter and get their lives on track, is it worth it to forego giving to those who truly need it? As Whatapainthisis showed, there are some people who truly might just need that little bit to get their lives together. Though I understand that giving the money prolongs the issue for many beggars, I don't think I could abstain from thinking, "What if that person really did need it?" Unfortunately sometimes you can't really know, and since that's the case, I'm willing to be wrong considerably more often than I am right. Not to mention all of those who simply can't get their lives back together and I feel it's worth it to give to those who ask.

Laxmom, the current foreclosure issue is one I didn't consider. I know often my family has cut expenses frighteningly close (sometimes my parents' clients have forgotten to pay--maybe not a big deal to them, but a huge one to us), and it's not at all hard to imagine a family living off a couple hundred or so less a month that would've been completely ruined by a seemingly minuscule shift in financial circumstances.

SkyGirl

I started crying Whatapainthisis when I read your post. Thank you for sharing.
You are an inspiring individual.

cottonwood513

Would you go stay in a shelter, knowing your meager possesions would be stolent while you sleep? That's the choice they face.

mamabear1234

I think someone's meager possessions could just as easily be stolen while he slept on the street. I do not give to panhandlers on the street. I do give generously to organizations that provide help, such as food, medical care, etc.

Hunt

I think that a larger percentage of your money will go to actually helping people if you give it to a reputable homeless assistance organization than if you hand it over to homeless people. Those administrative costs will be greatly outweighed by the percentage of the direct handouts that will go to alcohol.
I think this is a difficult problem. I tend to agree that giving money to many panhandlers probably doesn't help them much, and that giving to organizations is better. Of course, it's only better if you actually give the money to the organization.