ellemenope

>>Although I think we should not allow 'illegals' we should revamp our guest worker laws to take advantage of this symbiosis. <<

Agree with you ucsd_ucla_dad. We can work this out, but any movement off of the "deport all illegals" position isn't going to get much traction until after the election.

I was around for the last amnesty in 1984 (I think it was, during the Reagan years). I would be interested to know how those people turned out once their immigration status was solidified.

mini

"No matter how bitter a taste it leaves in many mouths, the "illegal aliens" are mostly here because they are needed."

They are mostly here because they were kicked off their land in southern Mexico and Guatemala as a result of NAFTA. The slow trickle of undocumented immigration in the late 80s/early 90s became a tidal wave after Al Gore got his way. For most of these folks, it wasn't DESIRABLE to come to the U.S. before then.

As to what happened after the last amnesty? We have entire flourishing communities of Hispanics descended from formerly migrant farmworkers, building homes and business, and sending their kids to college.

xiggi

Because I wanted to put some emphasis that they are people above all; something I feel is often overlooked as debaters explore philosophical differences. Cosmopolitans and hardliners alike tend to change their tone when they talk about Peggy Sue, LaShonda, or ... Juanita. However, in general, discussions seem to relate monolithic and faceless blocks of world citizens, and not families and individuals.

I apologize if my quotations might have been construed as a derogatory comment.

xiggi

UCSD, the only solution is indeed based on finding the right symbiosis. You are 100% correct that we have had successful guest worker programs such as the Bracero Program from 1942 to 1964. However, the success might be measured differently by Mexican politicians, plantation owners, the United States, or the poor farmers who traveled thousands of miles to the United States.

In addition to the economic benefits, the United States also believes in its right to swell or restrict the "pipeline" at will and whimsically. Unfortunately, people (that word again) do not act or react like commodities. They establish roots and do ... procreate. As we know, this results in the rather unfortunate situation of guest workers being the parents of US citizens.

You could also track back to 1965 when our politicians created the problem of illegal aliens almost overnight by amending the quotas rules. Migrants who had peacefully entered AND left the United States found themselves in a legal limbo, or actually an "illegal" limbo.

The rest is history!

zoosermom

We don't just belive that to be false, we know it to be false. Many employers gain substantial benefits from hiring illegal workers. Lower hourly rates, not benefits, insurance, etc. Oh yes. Many employers love it.

Westcoastmon

Talk to anyone who has lived in California - they are absolutely shocked when they move to another state and pay much more for construction, lawn and housekeeping services than they did in California!

marite

^^ Maybe that's why Mitt Romney bought a house in CA. After it was pointed out that his MA gardeners were illegals.

jym626

LOL Marite!

Here, there are a lot of illegal Brazilians who clean houses. They make a LOT of money, and uncle Sam isn't seeing a penny of it.

barrons

Some have set-up a successful business.

Mexican Mafia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mexican Mafia: Prison Gang Profile - Inside Prison

ellemenope

>>As to what happened after the last amnesty? We have entire flourishing communities of Hispanics descended from formerly migrant farmworkers, building homes and business, and sending their kids to college.<<

What I haven't heard in the media are these people telling their stories in support of another amnesty bill. But politically, any talk of amnesty (or whatever name it goes by since amnesty is the A word) by a politician is the kiss of death in this political climate.

mini

If you were from an ethnic group that often feels under siege, unless you were especially politically oriented, you probably wouldn't go out of the way to increase scrutiny on yourself. That's what the political organizations are for. As for the national media, when's the last time (unless there was a flood or a tornado) that they descended for indepth stories on towns like Wenatchee or Othello, Washington?

ReneeV

Hey, I was born in Othello, WA! My grandparents immigrated from Mexico in the early 1920s. I have no idea if they were legal immigrants or not. They had lots of kids, who had lots of kids.....there are more than 70 of us in my generation, and we're all relatively successful contributors to society and the economy, and a few are VERY successful. Sadly, I'm one of fewer than 20 Spanish-speakers in my generation of the family.

mini

Thank you. I know literally dozens of families like yours. Some had relatives who came from Mexico to join their American families in 1960s-1980s, and received amnesty under Reagan.

And I also know some who went back to found large businesses in Mexico.

k&s

Funny how there wasn't an uproar about the 150,000+ illegal Irish in just NYC and Boston alone during the 1990s.

barrons

The media has given Sunnyside a fair amount of coverage.