coureur

>>The kids from my area's public HS who have gone there, or Princeton or Yale, are "regular" too. Albeit very accomplished. But not obsessed.<<

My daughter just graduated, and this describes her and a large majority of the kids she knew at Harvard as well.

She did take APs in high school. I think the final total turned out to be nine. But it was not out of some drive and desire to get into an Ivy. In fact she says it never even occurred to her to apply to Harvard until mid-way through her Jr. year when we got the SAT scores back, and I pointed out to her that she would be a viable candidate for H if she chose to apply. Prior to that she was already into the AP courses, but the Ivy league was nowhere on her radar.

mom2three

OP-
My son sounds like yours, and based on these boards I had not really thought about applying to Ivy league schools.

Maybe I've been wrong.

his stats: 1470/2130 SAT. Lots of AP's (because of the magnet he attends.) About a 3.6 unweighted GPA, 4.4 ish weighted (depending on who is doing the weighting)
4 years of a sport, but not a star.
Various EC's but not the president, etc.

RNK (really nice kid) a little flaky. :-)

Who knows - maybe we'll take a flyer at Princeton.

worknprogress

I do think you get a skewed idea of what kids are like at an Ivy League school when you read some of the posts on CC.

Daughter was one of many kids who didn't even think about such a school until she started receiving materials after PSAT. H and I thought she might have a shot, but we never said anything to her until those scores came in. To her someone going to Harvard was like someone going to the Olympics, cool, but utterly untouchable.

Long story short, she's at Yale and happier than she has ever been in her life.

NewHope33

I never thought of CC as a place "for people intent of attending Ivys" but rather a forum for parents and prospective students to get information.

Lafalum84

NewHope33, it all depends on which discussion forums you are in. Here on the Parents forum, there's all types. But check out the Ivy forums at your peril. I do remember one post in the parent section from a parent who was disappointed that his oldest child only got into a "lesser Ivy" and was wondering what to do to ensure his younger child would do better. The parent was disappointed that his daughter had to "settle" for Cornell!!!

OP, in general CC does not represent the "average" high school kid or even the average kid heading to college. CC says it is for "Elite College Admissions." That said, I'm sure there are plenty of "normal" kids at Ivies. I really think some of these obsessed Ivy wannabes on CC get turned down precisely because the colleges can see thru it, and see that they're all about resume-building instead of following a passion. Many of them don't even know why they want to go to Harvard except that it's the "best." I've seen students on these forums who want to go to Harvard to study something the school doesn't even offer! So I think the kids that DO end up at HYP are probably kids who truly have a passion and follow it, and admissions can see that - and they're probably more "normal."

Let your son apply to Ivies, but also look at plenty of other schools. When he goes to visit, and especially if he goes back for an "accepted student" day, he'll be able to tell if the kids at that school are "normal" or not.

TchaikovskyPiano

I can assure you that a lot of Ivy League students are normal. I was always under the impression that the resume-padding CC posters were stressed out top-school hopefuls, not necessarily the type of students you would actually find at elite schools. I attend one of those "lesser" Ivies, and I've found that most people aren't at all obsessed. My friends at other Ivies aren't either; they're do what they like, and they have fun. It's good to take AP courses in subjects you aren't interested in, not only to broaden your academic horizons but also to challenge yourself to learn something different from what you normally do on your own.

Parent99

Thanks to everyone for their responses. I think my gameplan will be to stick to this "Parent's Forum" as my main source of info/advice here on CC. It seems that everyone who answered me here was not only helpful, but pretty darn nice as well. I'm not sure if it's a good thing, but I know that I absolutely LOVE to RESEARCH every major family undertaking - whether that's a new car, a vacation or a college choice. The ultimate college decisions are totally up to my kids, but I like to know I can give them informed advice if they want it. Thanks again.

AdvicePlease

Parent99 -- My daughter has perfect grades (4.0), takes APs and scores well and has solid SATs (Ivy schools are absolutely reach with her current scores). She wants to pursue a career in pharmacy or medicine or dentistry.

She has mild interest in applying to Columbia because it's in NYC but beyond that wants to go to a good college for pre-medicine or pre-pharmacy, etc. I'm thankful that she hasn't picked out one dream school based on prestige. I want her to apply to lots of schools and see what happens. My father was a graduate of 2 Ivy schools (many, many years ago) for his Master's and his PhD. Both were paid by employers. I've told my daughter if she really has a dream school then defer her dream to graduate school when she really has a better idea of what is the best fit for her.

I have confidence that she'll do well wherever she goes.....and am hopeful that we will be able to afford to help pay for her choice. Our current understanding that she applies to wherever she wants but that our promise is to fund her at the rate at one of our in-state public universities. (This is now approximately $22k for room, board and tuition.)

thirdfloor

Parent99--No offense taken. My friends enjoy ribbing me about the "Hahhhhvahd" stereotype, so it's all good. I think as well as CC's posters being a skewed sample of the ivy-bound or hopeful, a lot of the ivy-obession might be region based. I went to a large public high school, so big that competition between students was almost non-existent, since basically everyone could do their own thing. It's probably different at private schools/boarding schools/elite publics.

I won't deny that there are prestige chasers, since they exist basically everywhere, but I was pretty fortunate in that my friends, teachers, and parents were more concerned with the value of education than the value of a brand name.

I kind of worry too about being too "normal" to fit in, but more in the sense of everyone seems to be a genius but me!

Hunt

"Our current understanding that she applies to wherever she wants but that our promise is to fund her at the rate at one of our in-state public universities. (This is now approximately $22k for room, board and tuition.)"

Since your handle is "AdvicePlease," I'll take the liberty of reacting to this. If this understanding is based on your financial situation, then it is quite reasonable, and your daughter may be able to obtain financial aid to pay for a more costly school. If, however, you have the financial ability to pay for a top school, and she has the academic qualifications to go to one, I think it is a mistake to assume that it doesn't make any difference, especially if she is really interested in medicine.

AdvicePlease

Hunt -- Our current financial situation is stable but we absolutely don't have enough money saved to send her to school. The only way we will even possibly begin to fund her education will be with loans or taxable withdraws from my retirement savings (...I've considered this but I'm hesitant to use up my retirement savings....I will definitely need to take loans to fund wherever she attends.) We won't qualify for financial aid because we both work full time and make ok salaries....certainly not enough, however, to come up with $50k a year to pay for college though. So...we're in the situation where I'm sure our EFC will disqualify us for aid but we most certainly don't have the ability to pay.

Also, we live in PA and we have excellent public universities.....there are two types of public schools in PA -- we have the State affiliated schools -- such as West Chester, Bloomsberg, etc... they used to be called the "teachers" schools. These are good schools but not especially academically competitive. Then we have 3 large public universities that are public but are independently run......Penn State, University of Pittsburgh, and Temple. All three have medical schools and Pitt and Temple also have pharmacy schools. All have Honors programs that are very competitive and she will apply to the Honors programs.

I think my daughter will get accepted at many good private schools.....but Ivies would definitely be a reach because while she has good base SAT scores they are no measure perfect. She also has good SAT subject tests and has successfully complete 4 AP tests with good scores.

I do appreciate your advice (as my name says I am definitely looking for it!). We'll see how the acceptances play out. At this point she knows she absolutely wants a career in a medicine related science field -- pharmacy, doctor, research scientist but doesn't have her heart on a specific school. I know to "never say never" and we'll have to look at everything.

My older daughter is at a public university and has had many opportunities -- research and a good paying internship........ I won't rule anything out and do appreciate your advice!!

frazzled1

After years of reading this board, I see something of a disconnect between the kids who are Ivy-obsessed and those who actually wind up at Ivy schools. Certainly there are some kids who try to cut themselves to fit what they think the Ivy mold is and choose their ECs and curriculum to look good on college apps. Yet it seems to me that the kids at Ivies are generally those kids who truly fit best there - the math prodigies, musical geniuses with perfect SATs, kids on fire to do original medical research - you know, the fabled "walk on water" kids. And yes, I know that such kids also wind up at the many, many other fine universities and LACs in this country.

To answer the OP's question - I never would have discouraged my kids from applying to Ivies because I thought that Ivy-obsessed kids would be over-represented on campus. Not everyone at an Ivy is there because they had an "Ivy or bust" mentality. I did ask my two oldest ds (one of who was accepted at Cornell, the only Ivy any of my kids ever applied to) if they thought they'd be happy at schools where pretty much everyone has that ultra-special (walk on water, if you will) quality. Neither of them thought that would be a big issue to cope with - but neither of them felt those particular eight schools were the best fits for them, either.

SJTH

After reading CC for a couple of years, I've learned to breathe deeply when I look at the "stats" that people post in their quest to seek whether they'll be accepted to an elite U. My oldest son was accepted a year ago to a wonderful school, and he had great credentials, BUT when I look at his college's message boards, I wonder how the heck he ever got in there with his "weaker" stats. He's been on the Dean's list both semesters....

With S2, quite surprisingly, there is an Ivy on his list, because it seems like a perfect fit for his academic pursuit. It will be a big reach for him to get accepted (no "perfection" in scores, grades or disease-curing research). We are completely confident, though, that if he were accepted, he would fit in, succeed, and be a great contributor to that school's community. I'm extremely comforted --and was when we visited--that there are nice, regular kids there.

epiphany

The key fact to remember is that an awful lot of those posting on the student CC forums do not get admitted to the very Ivies they're obsessed about. Some do get admitted. (They come back later to post on the Results threads.) But what I tend to find is that the quieter posters, and many even self-deprecating, modest posters are the ones who get admitted. A few, also, of the over-the-top ones -- in terms of apparent ego -- also have reported positive admissions results to Ivies. However, when comparing the tone & content of the latter's pre-admission posts with post-admission posts, the genuine personalities emerge. For the most part, that translates to having a normal, non-inflated ego in 'real life.' After several years on CC reading the student forums (and occasionally posting in them ), a lot of what you see is cyber-ego-battles, for want of a more apt phrase. A lot of posing & strutting for ego points, with the more mature (& balanced!) voices among them standing out as exceptions.

Hunt

I also think that a lot of the "Ivy-obsessed" kids are a lot more normal than they may seem through the lens of postings here.