barrons

How much longer--until he is no longer a threat. That might be a few years.

alwaysamom

And who is to determine that?

galoisien

Why don't we do the same internally? We should make mass detainments of youths (the most "dangerous" period of life) until they are no longer a threat.

The social benefit of Justice doesn't change depending on which individual you apply it on. Ultimately it is not individuals who benefit from rule of law -- it is society. The fact that we don't establish the same social contract everywhere is why we continue to find increased resistance to our presence.

Hard_Knocks

> The fact that we don't establish the same social contract everywhere is why
> we continue to find increased resistance to our presence.

galoisien, I can appreciate your sincerity, but really, I thought the reason they don't like us and want us dead is because we don't practice their social contract, as in we're not Muslim.

galoisien

That's why the faction leaders hate us, not why the factions find support...

The fight is as much political as it is religious -- note how the mujahadeens fought each other following the withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Afghanistan. Often not over religious doctrine, but just who was to control the city. Just look at the name of the ultimate victor the Taliban -- "students". They enjoyed the popular support that lead to the ousting of all other mujahadeen groups from Kabul because unlike the other groups, they set out to implement a rule of law and had a theory (no matter how "crackpot") behind it.

You find that extremism does not reign in Muslim countries with real rule of law. (The Saudi monarchy is not an example of rule of law, as Locke himself would have analysed.)

If you follow Iraqi blogs (some of them written by school-aged adolescents), you will find that that most of the resentment is not due to anything related to religion, but due to perceived insensitivity and inaction. Differences in religion help facilitate an existing alienation. I can't link to them here, unfortunately....

Hunt

The treatment of these prisoners will do our country more harm in the long run than they would do if released, even if they do return to their factions. They would just be a few more armed people who hate us among thousands. I have never bought this idea that they are neither POWs nor criminals, but some vague other category that lets us treat them however we want. It's so un-American that it amazes me that so many Americans accept it.

barrons

Hunt, you are looking at this through western values. To the radicals fairness and the rule of law are just weaknesses to be exploited. Read some of the stories on the current trial of the "liquid" bombers that were caught before they could execute their plans. They are using the legal system to great advantage. Our laws were made for robbers and common murderers, not for organized death squads.

Hunt

I like Western values, and especially Judeo-Christian ones. I'm not ready to give them up.

garland

Agree with Hunt. Let's practice and uphold our values--I believe they define us.

ucsd_ucla_dad

Captured enemy combatants are typically held until the war is over. This is what's been done by every side in every war (except for those sides that just kill those they capture). Captured enemy combatants aren't each individually given a trial and to attempt to do so wouldn't be possible. Imagine giving trials to each of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of captured enemy while the action was still taking place. Why are people surprised that he's still being held?

garland

Well, for one, what war is it that he is being held till the end of? Iraq War, Afghanistan War, the War on Terror? Not at all clear.

Secondly, aren't those held as such usually called POWs, with Geneva Convention oversight?

barrons

Yes, when they are part of an army run by government of a nation with authority to negotiate and surrender and treat our captured soldiers with equal restraint. Obviously that has not been the case with captured US soldiers and civilains being horribly killed and dumped. What we have now is a unique situation of organized non-governmental fighters who know no bounds. To offer them any quarter is stupid and useless. It will not help our captured people one iota.

garland

Though for sure, we didn't bother to call the Japanese-Americans held in internment camps POWs, or give them trials. So, you're right--we should be used to this.

garland

This is getting circular, Barrons. Without trials, how can we make these accusations with confidence? Especially as we know that many, many people held at Guantanamo were finally released, often after years, once we finally admitted we had no reason to hold them.

Hard_Knocks

Thank you, ucsd_ucla_dad, for posting!

Reading the headlines today about the Israeli-Hezbollah trade of a convicted murderer (of a man and his 4 year old daughter) for the REMAINS of two soldiers, and then the posts that argue that we should be even more just, started to make my head hurt.