Last year's shopping, checklists, and bedding threads.

[Lhasa]

1075, I've wondered about sprinkler systems in dorms, but they don't seem to be very common.

There was a dorm fire at the Southern Adventist University in Tennessee just this past week, and one student, a girl from Illinois, was killed. Smoke detection alarms went off and the students all evacuated except this girl. Her roommate said that the girl went toward the fire, instead of away from it, even though she called out to the girl to come back. The fire started on a couch in a kitchenette/lounge area.

The chief of the area fire dept. has said in public statements that sprinklers are for building protection, not protection of life. He said smoke alarms are supposed to go off early enough for students to evacuate and that sprinklers will not go off until the temp. reaches 200 degrees. He said that sprinklers may or may not have made a difference.

[1075]

Lhasa,
It is true that sprinklers alone may not be enough to save lives in every situation. It is also true that there is not a system that will guarantee that no one will ever be killed in a fire.

It is a fact that the combination of automatic fire sprinklers, smoke alarms, and the appropriate building fire protection features will give occupants their best chance of survival. Another big plus is a professional, well staffed fire department that is proactive with it's inspection/code enforcement, public education and training programs.

I did a little "Google" research on the fatal fire you referenced in Tennessee and found the following news account:

http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=3261959

I must admit that my first reaction when you said that the local fire chief had made the statement that a sprinkler system would not have saved the life of this girl was to think that he must have been the chief of a small volunteer department or grossly misinformed. I came across the following editorial that echos my feelings and explains what happens in a fire very well.

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_66125.asp

Bottom line is this; Wouldn't it be easier to spend the money necessary to protect our kids from the dangers of fire than to re-live the loss and tragedy that this family is dealing with over and over?

[Lhasa]

1075, thank you for finding that editorial in The Chattanoogan. I missed it when I did a search for the news reports of the Collegedale fire.

I appreciate your comments and your direction to the editorial. Obviously, sprinklers should have been something that we asked about as we visited college dorms, but we didn't, because I did not realize that they were an option anywhere. I guess I'll be spending the next four years praying that no one in s's dorms has candles or leaves a pan burning on the stove.

[1075]

Lhasa,
You can help keep it safer for your son by making sure he goes to school with only power strips equipped with circut breakers, never use conventional extension cords without built in circut breakers. Get an electric Carbon Monoxide detector (the kind with a digital readout) for his room. A battery powered smoke detector can be mounted with adhesive backed velcro if necessary. And make sure he is aware of all of the means of egress from his room.

If you notice things like missing extinguishers, burnt out exit lights or fire doors propped open during visits, report them to the campus safety office.

[Lhasa]

Again, my thanks for your advice.

We have the power strips with the breakers. We can get a smoke detector, although I believe every room has one in his dorm. We'll check the batteries. CO detector is a plug-in model?

What about those emergency fire escape ladders for the window? Are they worthwhile? Can a student be expected to be able to knock out the window and drop the ladder swiftly? Is a $40 one just as good as the $85 models?

Only upperclassmen live on the ground floors of the dorms at his schools, because they're all double suites on those floors. All freshmen and soph's are 2nd and 3rd floors.

[1075]

First find out if the windows will open in a manner where the escape ladder can be used. If they (hopefully) do then an escape ladder may be useful. Obviously, it will only be useful if it is kept in a place under the window that is quickly accessible in smoke. And yes, the CO detector should be a plug in (electric) model, the ones with a cord and digital readout are best.

[Lhasa]

Thanks, 1075. I'll check out the dorm windows when he goes up in June for orientation.

So glad you joined in on this thread!

[Lhasa]

1075, I'm pasting the response I rec'd from the director of residential life at my s's college, and I wonder if you have any comments.

Do they seem to have the bases covered [other than the question of sprinklers?] Is there anything else I should ask? Should we still provide a CO detector for S's room?

Thanks.
------------------------------------------------------
Regarding your questions, each student room has a smoke
detector, as well as all of our public areas. Each
residence hall fire activation system is also tied in
to the dispatcher at the University Police Station, as
well as the XXX City Fire Department. Our public
areas also have fire extinguishers placed in various
locations, and the buildings are all serviced with a
standard fire hose and water delivery system. Each
residence hall room door is grade a fire retardant door, as
dictated by our local fire codes. As well, there are fire
doors in each of the end stair wells.

However, our residence halls currently do not have
sprinkler systems. The majority of our buildings were built
in the 60's, and as such this was not a code requirement
during those years. Likewise we do not have CO detectors
in our facilities either. The heat to our residence halls is
provided by a high temperature water line, so gas is not
used for the purpose of heating our facilities.

Additionally, we conduct fire drills each semester so that
our students are educated on the proper evacuation
procedures in the event there were a real fire.
---------------------------------------------

[wish_it_was_april]

1075, I too appreciate your posts.

I expect my S will live in a high rise dorm. Other than taking fire drills seriously and avoiding the elevators in a fire, can you provide any tips for the safest way to vacate? I am thinking sadly of the people who died in the twin towers, who didn't always know the best/safest way to exit from where they were....

What should we advise our kids about it? My dad always travelled with a flashlight which he kept by his bed in hotel rooms, and we were taught to check the map to be sure we knew where exits were. I did once have to vacate a hotel when fire alarms went off, so it is not an academic exercise for me. Fortunately the fire was in a basement area, no one was hurt, and we had more than enough time to exit in an orderly way.

Thanks.

[1075]

Lhasa,
A CO detector is nesessary whenever a fuel (oil, gas, wood etc.) is burned within a building to produce heat or hot water, cook, or dry clothes. From the response you got, it sounds like the hot water used to heat the dorm comes from a central heating plant which is not located in the dorm. Hot water may or may not come from the same central facility. If the dorm has no systems that burn fuel, then there is no need for a CO detector. CO is a colorless, odorless gas that is produced when a fuel burns. It builds up in structures with inadequate ventilation or when there is a blockage in the ventilation system or mechanical defect in a furnace, water heater, gas clothes dryer or other such device.

The fire protection systems described by the residential director are the minimum required for a dorm. Fire extinguishers and standpipe hose typically are not considered by fire service professionals as primary protection human life. Rather, they are in place to protect property. Obviously, they are not automatic and require intervention by an individual trained in their use to be effective. In many cases they actually cause injuries because people not trained in their use who attempt to extinguish the fire rather than calling 911, activating the alarm bells to alert others, and most importantly GETTING OUT OF THE BUILDING. I have seen this many times.

Fire doors are good but are useless if they are propped open, allowing smoke and fire to get into the stairwells and travel thruout the building. In many cases audible fire alarms are ignored due to frequent false alarms.

I would suggest that you ask how often safety checks are performed to insure that the systems are in place so they are functional. Also ask who is held accountable to see that the checks are properly done on a regular basis and if records are kept of the checks. I would also suggest that you make sure you have a conversation with your son to assure that he has at least thought about his options for evacuation should it be necessary.

Most people don't give it a second thought and the job makes me more aware than 95% of the general population, but a little planning, preparation and common sense go a long way. I always check out the exits when I go into a theater, store or other place of public assembly, most people just go out the place where they entered the building. This was a factor in the Station Night Club fire which occured in 2003 in East Warwick NH. I saw the video that was shot by a reporter who was inside the club at the time the fire started. He began to move toward the exit as soon as he became aware of the fire (almost as soon as it started) and barely made it out of the building.

This link includes fairly strong language, but does a good job illustrating how people who are responsible for the safety of others often blatantly disregard that trust. It also references the hazards of egg crate padding which was used as a sound deadening material in this building:

http://www.jedimaster.net/great_white.htm


This link provides more information on the tragedy and video clips shot by the reporter:

http://www.newcenturyfriends.net/station.html

Sorry to be so long winded, but I don't believe most people give this stuff the thought that it deserves.

[1075]

wish it was april,
I must have been preparing my previous reply and did not see your post. You can actually do a lot to insure that you make it out safely. Education, preparation, awareness and planning are your best tools. You can see how this was a factor in the links I posted above. I'll list a few tips:

- Carry your cell phone at all times, know your location within a building at all times so you can call 911 tell them where you are should you become trapped. Being aware of your surroundings can save youe life (same as when using an ATM, walking alone, etc.).

- Know the locations of all marked exits within the space you are occuping and assure that they are not blocked by furnishings etc. or locked.

- Do not attempt to fight a fire unless you have been properly trained. Pull the fire alarm, get out, call the Fire Department immediately.

- When you are on upper floors, DO NOT use elevators, most of them will not work anyway if the fire alarm is activated. Use the stairs, find out where ALL exit stairs are on the floor and that they are accessible. Unless it is a high rise I always use the stairs instead of the elevator anyway because it helps me stay in shape and I have rescued enough people from stalled elevators to know that being stuck in an elevator is not a plesant way to spend time.

- If you become trapped by fire or smoke, stay low, close any doors that you can to seperate yourself from the fire/smoke and call 911 or use any means available to notify others of your situation.

As illustrated in the links referenced in my previous post, don't assume that someone else is looking out for your safety. If you see a locked / blocked exit insist that it be cleared or leave. If you are in a space that is obviously overcrowded, leave if possible or locate yourself at an exit. Carrying a small flashlight (on a keyring etc.) is a good idea.

Oh, and one last thing. Never under estimate the power of public pressure. Automatic sprinklers are your best defense combined with a well trained, well staffed professional fire department. If either of these are lacking in a place where you or your loved ones live or work, organize and make a difference. Anyone doubt the power an effective parent organization can have on a school system?

[Saintofme]

Fortunately all of the dorms at UPenn are sprinklered. I need to find out about the CO and the other items mentioned, though.

[wish_it_was_april]

1075 - Once again, thank you! I am copying your posts and will check the links - more topics for dinner table conversation!

[Dizzymom]

I, for one, missed this extremely valuable thread and am bumping it in case other parents might have passed it over as well. Worth bookmarking! Thank you Maize & Blue!!!!

[katwkittens]

http://www4.jcpenney.com/jcp/Product...TTYP=&ShopBy=0

On Jcpenney.com in their outlet section for today Wednesday only they have XL twin fitted and flat sheets for $3.99.

For free delivery add the promotional code when you go to check out: APRWEL5.

Code will work for longer than today but the sheets will only be for $3.99 for Wednesday 5/11. Again in the outlet section under Wednesday Deals.

Kat