zoosermom

Vossron: Here is one of the places I took that information from. There was another and I'll hunt it down for you.
Palin pressured Wasilla librarian: Gov. Sarah Palin | adn.com

Palin E-Mails in Troopergate Revealed, Washington Post: Messages Criticize Investigation Into Ex-Brother-In-Law For Not Firing Him - CBS News

Here is info about the emails. Lot more nuanced than what is being presented. I'd like to say that I wouldn't want to have been in Governor Palin's situation. She's still a human being and it must have been terrifying.

zoosermom

Hindoo, you want a bad mayor, I give you Michael Bloomberg.
No, really. He's yours.

vossron

z, thanks. There's nothing there that says, e.g., that the librarian was a political appointee. It says that the previous mayor hired the librarian (something mayors do), but not that he fired the previous one when he took office.

This whole notion of testing a librarian's loyalty to the new mayor is sickening. Are these the kind of values we want in any elected official?

This is Alberto Gonzales all over again. No change.

zoosermom

I didn't say that he did.


I think cleaning house is a good thing. Not everyone will see the same set of facts in the same way. I think it's realy great that we are having this conversation so courteously.

vossron

But if he *had* fired the previous librarian, it would be evidence that the librarian was a political appointee; as it is, I see none, contrary to your claim. That's all.

Well, I prefer librarians and similar officials to be hired on the basis of competency rather than political loyalty. We do see things differently, and courteously, too!

zoosermom

True that Vossrun, I just take it that if one mayor hires someone at will, the next is entitled to hire his/her own people. Maybe "political appointee" was a poor choice of words?

spideygirl

Hindoo -
You, Zoosermom, and I will all go to lunch (and apparently, we will get our car dirtied and get hit up for cash en route).

undecided

This thread has somewhat morphed since its inception, but I didn't see anyone float (exactly) what I wanted to suggest regarding the linguistic issue, so here goes.

"Uppity" never had a racial connotation for me. I spent K-5 in a Texas public school, book-ended by time in California.

"Uppity" has the same classist/elitist connotations other posters have mentioned for me.

The Kool-Aid thing? I didn't know about the origin of it, but like other posters I thought of it as a sycophantic/blind follower thing rather than a racial thing.

So why am I mentioning both of them together? Mainly because I think the American reinvention of the etymology has added a racial marker to social slurs. Calling someone "uppity" is to say they're reaching beyond what they deserve -- of course 19th century America is going to tie that to the black people. Many of them were necessarily and understandably destitute. It was as offensive to be a poor man acting entitled to the rich man's largesse as it was to be black and act entitled to the same consideration and freedoms as whites got. Thus, the understanding of the slur and its use were intermingled, and probably found common ground in poor and rich whites using it against blacks quicker (racist AND elitist = a lot more population using it in a particular fashion than just one or the other).

The Kool-Aid thing is, I think, something of a recent construction (past couple decades). To my understanding, it's another reference to social and racial history. It's one of those "typical Southern foods" -- like fried chicken and watermelon, both of which you will also see mentioned in tandem with black people, especially pejoratively or in that pejorative-but-joking fashion that seems popular on the internet -- and "typical Southern things" often get tied to references to black people because of the population concentration and the history of it. Additionally, I think it gets added power from being tied to a classist judgment of poverty: fried chicken, watermelon and Kool-Aid are more casual, cheap eats, not daily fare.

There is in fact a book called "Why Do Black People Love Fried Chicken?" which I haven't read but serves my point in two ways: 1) it's one of those things lots of people say but don't know the origins of; 2) there's a place where people have asked and had these questions answered before.

Hunt

I don't think "drinking the Kool-Aid" appeared until after the Jonestown massacre.

I also think that uppity probably started out as a slur against blacks but has picked up a more general meaning.

mom60

I haven't read anything beyond this last page.
I wanted to comment on what undecided said about kool aid and watermelon.
I had a disburbing conversation with my 14 yr old about a month ago. She had a summer job working at a beach. This job was at a location that is frequented by people of a high economic level based on it being private and entrance is restricted. She was working with another teen who made a comment to her about a group of beachgoers. Thankfully my D did not get what the other boy felt was funny. The young man said something to the effect about the group drinking Kool Aid and eating lots of watermelon. The group was african american. We explained the reference to my D. She was appalled at what the boy had meant. She already felt he was sexist and now she knew he was also racist. He had already voiced his shock that a girl had been hired for the job.What shocked me is that this boy of 16 knew enough to make this comment in the year 2008. I had wishfully hoped we were beyond it. Plus the realization that this young man had to have learned these derogatory terms somewhere. At school or home? The young man goes to a private religious school, comes from a family who from outward appearances appears openminded and kind. His family is also extremely religious and has a special needs child so I would expect some teaching in that family regarding making comments based on someone's religion, race or physical appearance.What also is driving my D crazy is that this boy on the outside presents himself in his job as helpful, a hard worker. People comment to my D often what a nice young man he is. It bugs her to realize how easily people are not what they appear.

Hunt

Check the other political threads about discerning what a person "is" from a single comment.

undecided

Hunt: I'm more inclined to believe that the two things arose independently and were later grouped together (patching the racially-directed version onto the Jonestown version).

I think you might be right about uppity. The OED lists the first use as coming from Uncle Remus (which some of you might know better as the source of the Br'er Rabbit stories).

mom60: I'm 22 and I'm constantly saddened by the very same thing. :/

I know of the association I mentioned because of 4chan*. There is a meme about fried chicken and watermelon that has disseminated largely because of how big a group they are, and their M.O. regarding the rapid spread of memes. The Anonymous of 4chan are known to be incredibly insensitive, inflammatory and includes members with just about every -ist you can imagine. It's sad how quickly what's popular there spreads into the internet and parts beyond. They're the ones responsible for lolcats, rickrolling and the Anonymous Scientology protest, so it's not all racist/sexist/*-ist, but they're very, very opinionated and as a whole not so sensitive about issues, using terminology and discussions in ways that would shock even fairly liberal individuals.

* I really strongly recommend against visiting 4chan itself. If you're really curious, try the Wikipedia article.

Hindoo

I just watched an interview on FOX--Chris Wallace, talking with a top McCain rep. I was actually very impressed. He grilled the bejeebers out of that guy--not rudely, but firmly--especially as to why Palin's being sequestered from press interviews. His point was that if she's ready to be a heart-beat away from the presidency, then she ought to be ready to face the media. I may have to watch FOX more often!

zoosermom

Hindoo, O'Reilly and Hannity are opinion commentators. Aside from them Fox is almost completely bland an innocuous. It just works for the opposition to demonize them. Just as the left says the right is doing to the MSM right now. The difference is the retractions/apology in this one week alone that gives fuel to our argument.

Brit Hume is fair and serious to the point of being boring. Certainly the democrats shouldn't have been afraid of debating on Fox. Actually they weren't, it just would have taken away the meme if they had acknowledged Fox with a debate.

Apparently the ABC interview with Charlie Gibson is at the middle of this week. I think that's appropriate, in light of the fact that she had to hand over the state of Alaska and see her son off. The delay will be forgotten as soon as the interview airs, for good or ill.

scout59

Getting back to uppity - Stephen Colbert re-played his "Better Know a District" clip about Westmoreland, where the Georgia congressman could only name 3 of the Ten Commandments (this, of course, from the man who wanted to post them in federal courthouses.)

In commenting on the clip, Colbert made some comment about "look at that cracker' - and then whipped out a box of saltines. "What did you THINK I was talking about?!"