aibarr

If you go back and look, you'll see that all I said was "We're only intolerant of intolerance," which I apparently should've followed up with "we're not intolerant of people with dissenting opinions." I think that what you said was from a different viewpoint as mine, but I didn't see anything implicitly offensive in what you said in the post before mine. I disagree with you, but I also disagree with HisGraceFillsMe, who believes that homosexuality is a sin, but doesn't profess hate for gays-- I disagree with her, but I respect her opinion because she is respectful of people. I *did* see intolerance in the original poster's viewpoints, which is why I told her earlier that it's not up to us to hate.

So, you may feel as though I "stomped on" you, but I most certainly didn't intend to do so. If you felt offended, then I'm sorry that you felt offended. But I stand by my original affirmation that by and large, the majority of us are only intolerant of intolerance and hateful, exclusive speech.

littlegreenmom

They had some amazing writing on the show - fast, funny, intelligent. Wicked cool.

gdorf

If not tolerating the kind of bigotry - hidden under a thin religious facade - that the OP and LJMama promote makes me intolerant, then so be it. Just as I am intolerant of racists and sexists, so too am I tolerant of homophobes and anyone else who would condemn someone because of who they love. I find that view utterly without merit in any way, and do not tolerate it.

Now, that doesn't mean I will jump down the throat of anyone who expresses a view other than complete acceptance - HGFM, for example, who is respectful and kind about how she expresses her view on homosexuality (and obviously acts similarly in real life), will not get any anger or vitriol from me.

On another note, LJMama, we're still waiting to hear how others being gay affects anyone other than themselves. Do tell. Do you think being homosexual is a virus, or something? That you can catch it if you pay too much attention to homosexual people?

Alexandre

If I may say a word. I am a devout Catholic and I have always been taught (by Catholic priests no less) that we must love all of God's children. There is no degree of what classifies God's children. That term is absolute. It includes people of ages, races, religions, creeds, nationalities, political beliefs, sexual orientation, size, shape etc...

It saddens me when people use religion as an excuse to judge, justify their own insecurities or prejudices or worst yet, hate. It gives religion a bad name. One must never confuse religion and faith with ignorance and intolerance. The two are not related in the least, although apparently...and most unfortunately, they aren't mutually exclusive either.

To those of us who are gay, do not let the intolerant elements on this website discourage you. To the parents of gay children, I find your unfledging support for your children uplifiting beyond words.

Finally, let us remember that his website is devoted to helping high school juniors and seniors find their way. Many of those young men and women are coping with their sexuality among many other of life's challenges. And yes, sexuality is part of every young adult's education. They come to us seeking advice and guidance. Telling them that an aspect of their nature that cannot be changed is somehow wrong or defective is irresponsible and unacceptable. We do not have to encourage if we do not wish to do so, but we should not hurt them at this delicate juncture.

aibarr

Hear, hear.

wis75

Guess what folks- the real medical scene is not like it is portrayed by Hollywood/TV et al. Wish it were half as glamorous, people would be bored with the real presentation of events... I don't watch the medical fiction shows because I find too many errors and unrealities. The issues dealt with are real from what I have gleaned, however. TV shows run out of themes to present and so end, or the actors get tired of the roles despite the public's wish to see them. I have noticed most TV shows, or movie sequels tend to deteriorate after a while- they either run out of new material or decide to change because the writers seem to think they have to become grander, to top their old episodes. Entertainment has portrayed increasingly graphic sex and violence over my adulthood- they have passed the point of overcoming this country's Puritanical heritage to bad taste in even liberal minds.

Regarding opinions- Christians need to realize their beliefs are NOT shared by all good, moral, ethical people- contrary to their beliefs what they take as truth is not always fact. Christians have the right to be wrong- with so much disagreement among them, most of them have to be wrong at least some of the time. Any religions that declare only their beliefs are correct step on other people's toes (and worse). I never have figured out how opposing religious views can claim to be the only correct ones- someone's God given truths are wrong, or everyone's are. I'm focusing on Christians because they are the dominant religion of this country and don't seem to realize there are other equally valid beliefs or how much impact their practices have on our everyday life (think of holidays, weekends- Sundays, social life, schools, volunteer opportunities- all for the convenience of Christians, often inconveniencing others).

PS- being stomped on is something nonchristians have been used to from Christians- doesn't feel good when you're the recipient of someone else's righteous indignation, does it?

franglish

I am so glad that the majority of the posts on this thread seem to be from tolerant, accepting people. That gives me hope for this country.

frazzled1

Smooth move, LJMama, to assign yourself the role of victim. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. I objected to the original post for several reasons: it posits that "this type of programming is NOT OK!" because it "does not represent mainstream America" - now really, is that what the folks in Hollywood are supposed to do? It declares that homosexuality is a sin in God's eyes, which may be manifestly apparent to you and the OP, but apparently is not to the overwhelming majority of posters on the thread. And, after all, the OP did ask "Anyone else agree?" with her position. If this is a forum for expression of one's opinion, as you remind us - well, that's what all of us have been doing.

You are perfectly entitled to post your anti-gay beliefs. Those of us who do not share those beliefs are equally entitled to to consider them intolerant, or narrow-minded, or based in ignorance. This is freedom of expression (that pesky thing the "Grey's" creators were exercising), and it's not supposed to be comfortable. We don't all have to agree - and, in fact, we aren't going to.

miltonmom believes that she knows what "mainstream America" is, and wants. But I'm not willing to let her decide that for me.

MomofWildChild

I want to ask that the OP and LJMama NOT be considered representative of "Christians". That is a huge generalization and most Christians are very tolerant of other viewpoints and religions. My high school actually closed for Jewish holidays- it was simply a matter of recognizing what worked best for the community. I, a "Christian", did not consider myself inconvenienced at all.

I also have a suspicion that LJMama might be a regular poster reincarnated. Check the low post count.

Mary13

Just catching up on this thread...Alexandre, wonderful post (#139). Thank you.

zoosermom

What an utterly ignorant thing to post in light of the comments from right-wingers in this thread. Can't read?

musicamusica

Very well put Alexandre!

DonnaL

I guess LJMama, like most bigots, simply doesn't understand that her freedom to express her viewpoints doesn't exempt her from criticism. I have just as much right to point out her bigotry as she does to express it. The fact that her bigotry claims to be religious in origin is irrelevant. Once upon a time, there were many so-called Christians (who, in reality, were not worthy of the name) who thought that slavery was mandated by God. I guess LJMama would say that the abolitionists who opposed those people were similarly "intolerant."

Well. In the immortal words of Livia Soprano and Gloria Trillo -- "poor you."

owlice

Alexandre, your post gave me goosebumps; what a wonderful post!

~~~~~~~~~

If I were to belong to a Christian church, it would be the one my husband and I attend: United Church of Christ. It is open to all, supportive and accepting of people regardless of sexuality, gender identity, race, and so on. So yes, I know the OP and LJMom are not representative of all Christians, and thank goodness for that!!!

unsoccer-mom

Another UU here who thinks that is is Christian to be tolerant and, also, a resident of Massachusetts where gay marriage is legal and a state that has the lowest divorce right in the nation. One can conclude that the gay agenda does not negatively impact me as a straight married women.