tom1944

MomofWC- I have seen that before but have never seen a "Christian" reply- maybe today.

Consolation

Hindoo asked "Would someone please refer me to a New Testament passage regarding the evils of homosexuality? I asked earlier, but no one responded."

That's because the four gospels contain no such thing.

When bigots want to lambaste someone with the bible, they always go to either Paul or the Old Testament. IMNSHO, Paul twisted Christianity into a reflection of his own prejudices, most of which directly contravene the spirit of the teachings of the man Jesus--as far as we know them.

People have noted a difference between the religion OF Jesus, and the religion ABOUT Jesus.

wis75

I'd much rather be Christlike than Christian.

intparent

MomofWC, I was thinking of LJMama while I was in Target today. Wondering if she carries a rock in her pocket when she goes shopping on a Sunday (to nail the cashier in the forehead), since the Bible encourages stoning those that work on the sabbath. Wouldn't it be great to see all the religions that include the Bible in their teachings either (1) take the whole thing literally - grow your beards, hang tassels on your clothes, stone the adulterers among you, etc.; or (2) make a list of ALL the rules in the Bible, and make a conscious effort to chuck out those that are obviously hurtful to others who are causing no harm to you, like restrictions against homosexuality. Almost every religion today is picking and choosing among the rules anyway. And eliminate rules that are clearly just kinda dumb in the modern age (I think you would get arrested for stoning the cashier...) or have been clearly debunked by scientific evidence. It would go a long ways toward bringing more people back to religion. By the way, if you want to read about a modern man trying to live by all the rules of the Bible, the book "The Year of Living Biblically" by AJ Jacobs documents a very entertaining attempt.

Hindoo

My feeling is, WHO KNOWS? Who could possibly know what God wants ... or if God wants anything at all? Or if God even exists? Or if the entire Bible was written by nomadic story-tellers whose Old Testament job was to scare the bejeebers out of an unsophisticated, primitive populace, and whose New Testament stories were conjured up to make God seem less petty and vindictive and more kindly. We are the strangest species that we can believe something so fervently and with absolutely no evidence for it. Then we can take this blind "faith" and use it however we see fit, twist it and manipulate it to suit our purposes, often in ways that are cruel and intolerant. ... I don't profess to "know" what God wants. But any God that I could believe in wouldn't waste his/her time casting stones at gay folks or looking for ways to ostracize good people. I could never have "faith" in a God that evil.

wis75

I'm lucky- my ancestors weren't Jewish so the need to be saved doesn't arise, nor do the rules of their scriptures. No offense to those of that ethnicity, just making a point about which versions of history we choose to believe- Europeans got all the baggage along with the good points when they chose Christianity (or had it forced upon them by their rulers). I learned a lot through marrying an Indian- all sorts of things that bothered me about the religion of my upbringing were taken out of play when I realized the whole world didn't agree on ancient beginnings.

ChellyBelly42

As a queer woman, I think the most hurtful things I ever read or hear are those condemning homosexuality.

Almost seven years after I realized my attraction to women, I am still coming to terms with my sexuality. I can remember my first thought upon realizing it: "I'm going to go to Hell for this". I was raised Catholic, surrounded by "homosexuality is an abomination" but also "love the sinner, hate the sin"- the one thing I never figured out is, how can I love myself if I am supposed to hate an integral part of me?

You cannot begin to understand how painful it is to hate a part of yourself so deeply unless you have experienced something similar. I am finally at a point in my life where I am comfortable with who I am, where I can laugh off comments to the tune of "homosexuality is a sin" because I know it's not true. But I do hurt inside every time I read that- because I know that there are kids out there reading it who are going through the same thing I went through, who are doubting whether God loves them, whether they have any chance of going to heaven, whether there is something broken or flawed or wrong with them. It hurts. So much. So please, stop preaching hate and start preaching love.

Hindoo

Amen, Chelly, amen!

Northstarmom

Hugs to you ChellyBelly.

kayleealia

Are you speaking of the episode with where two of the main characters (both female) get together? Or are you talking about the episode where two gay men are in the military? (I'm a Grey's junkie, ha).

I actually am horrified to think that anybody thinks Hollywood is pushing the "gay agenda". I'm even more horrified to think that it's actually a problem that two or three episodes of an entire series which revolve around a couple that is not straight offends you.

Condeming homosexuality is the modern equivalent of supporting slavery, to me. Soon, everybody will see that just because Biblically, it may be interpreted to be okay, it obviously is NOT okay to 1. enslave people 2. condemn people for loving somebody else. Slavery's out, right? Slavery's bad? You all know that? Right?

It's plain ignorant for somebody to condemn another person for whom this person loves.

As somebody who is NOT straight, I myself am RELIEVED to see gay couples on TV (go Grey's Anatomy for first *real* lesbian couple!). When every episode of a series that's gone on for four or five seasons is day-in, day-out straight people, you KNOW it's not an accurate representation of the world in which we live.

Get lives beyond harassing other peoples' romances, please.

emeraldkity4

^ agree.

& after giving it more thought- while I don't watch shows that have devolved into soaps-I used to watch CSI but as hot as some of the characters were- (Gary Dourdan could almost make me forget Eddie & I have liked Marg Helgenberger since I saw her on China Beach ), they were edging into too much relationship , not enough science territory.
( guess I will have to go back and watch- they killed off Warrick? )

But no one has explained why if Grey's Anatomy or any show was offensive, why they kept watching it?

Perhaps it was more titillating than embarrassing?
Fess up.

DonnaL

Thank you, Chelly and Kayleealia.

ShesOnHerWay

What I don't understand with the Yes on 8 people is how they can "support" (and I use that term loosely) interracial marriage and interfaith marriage as being legal, but not gay marriage? Similarly I don't understand how they can "support" divorce as being legal? I understand that within their religion none of these situations is allowed, yet all are legal. Is gay marriage not the same? Even though they may not support the religious side of it, should it not still be legal?

(I realize I am making generalization about "people", "religion" and "support", but I don't have any other words to use to categorize the Yes on 8 group.)

HisGraceFillsMe

I don't like Prop 8, and I'm a Christian.

Quite frankly, if the only reason you think something is wrong is because of your religion, there's not much reason to put it to a vote. Last time I checked, we are NOT a theocracy.

I also think it's wrong for me to say "I don't like this, so you can't do it either."

What if they wanted to make tattoos illegal because the Bible says "thou shalt not mark thy body for the dead"?

I'd also like to point out, to those of you speaking to the "picking and choosing rules", that the OT is almost always referred to as "history" now. At least, in several branches. We use it to better understand the NT, but things changed so much when Jesus came that we're not expected to follow the same laws that the OT set down.

The only thing I can think of that is relevant to both gay marriage and the NT is that God intended marriage to be between a man and a woman. But again, we're not a theocracy, so that has no political relevance.

littlegreenmom

EmeraldKitty,

You asked a good question about why those who were offended by a scene would keep watching. I am not sure if you are directing this to me - who has been a viewer since day one - and watched, or to the viewer who was outraged by the scene. I kept watching. Like when I read a book or go to a movie, and halfway through think, this is not my favorite book or movie, but I want to find out what happens next.

As I said, I thought the scenes were more crass and titillating, and less in tune with the audience. I am not offended by any agenda promoting gay or lesbian lifestyles. I have friends that are married - and gay.

What I thought was over the top was how these scenes were played. I think they were tacky - and I said as much, when the same scene happened the second week - in a row on the same theme.

I am not offended by sex scenes, in general. I think the way these particular scenes were written were not sensual, at all. Tacky, would be more like it!

I haven't had a chance to talk with my friend who is gay and married - I am not sure if she is a fan of the show. Usually, she says she is offended by people thinking that it is all about "sex". She has said to me that when people focus only on that, they are missing the point.