momof2inca

Wow, I generally try to refrain from judging private citizens on their reproductive choices, but this one is hard to stay silent about. The Los Angeles area mother who had octuplets last week already has six small children at home. She took fertility drugs and was surprised to conceive eight more, all of which will at some point come home to their small house where the grandparents also live.

This seems really crazy to me. At what point is it wrong to bring more children into the world? At what point do you criticize an infertility doctor for treating a woman who already has six kids when there is such a huge risk of mulitples with the treatment?

Mother of octuplets already has six young children [UPDATED] | L.A. Now | Los Angeles Times

Northstarmom

Was she trying to conceive a child of a certain gender?

dragonmom

At this point is where you criticize the doctor!!!!!

BunsenBurner

I was wondering about that, too. Why on Earth would someone undergo fretility treatment if the family already has six kids? I can not think of any other reason.

Dragonmom, it is quite likely that the doctors who monitored her pregnancy and delivered the babies had nothing to do with the fertility clinic where she got the "treatment" by paying a fee for the service. It is just my speculation.

ghostfire13

The report on the news tonight stated that she was already about two months along before she come into the Kaiser doctors' care.

As far as "judging", this is where it begins. Starting with the mother--you have six children, *** are you thinking (and I have seen news reports saying that she is a single mom living with her parents), you already have SIX children. Next the fertility clinic/doctor--do you not research your patients? This woman already has SIX children, she does not have fertility problems.

And last, but not least, our insurance system which tends to not cover IVF (which limits the number of embryos transplanted, but is expensive), but does cover drugs such as Clomid (which stimulates egg-producing follicles that can produce large amounts of eggs ready to be fertilized resulting in pregnancies such as this one). How much is this costing her insurance now?

I don't believe that insurance should cover any fertility treatments for a woman who already has child (not to mention six). And no doctor should be allowed to treat her as infertile. Of course, this woman may have paid for it on her own, but the doctor still gave her the drugs.

Of course there is the slight miniscule chance that this pregnancy was completely natural. I guess there is that mathematical possibility, however unlikely. We tend not to have litters.

naildirt

none of our business, she has her rights

3bm103

She totally has rights as long as we aren't paying for any of them. Chances are though, that if she's a single mother with 14 children, that she's not paying out of pocket for this.

-Allmusic-

And NICU care for those eight preemies will run minimum of a million each. Who do you think is paying for that care? Everyone else, through their insurance premiums. And when those preemies have other medical or educational needs (autism, cerebral palsy, learning disabilities, other health issues), we will all continue to pay, if only indirectly.

LaVieEnChocolat

maybe she wants her own reality show!!!!

sunnyflorida

I doubt there in an American clinic/physician directly involved in the fertility care of this women.

Because the use of gonodotropins is so expensive, and after one is either successful, or gives up, there is also a whole underground of women exchanging gonodotropins. It started out as a great way for a deserving couple to be able to affort treatment. They would go to a support group where there would be women, contacts etc to get HMG products free from patients who had this very expensive stuff sitting unused in their medicine cabinets. However, there are now more than a few reported cases of women self medicating with no hormone levels or U/S's to monitor. They get the "recipes" off the internet.

And then there is the fact that clinics in Mexico, Europe, and India esp are advertising the fact that one can pay for a "vacation" and medical treatment for half of what it would cost here. You probably have seen/heard of some of the plastic surgery nightmares coming out of Mexico. This is happening in the world of infertility as well.

Finally, there are instances where patients undergo ovarian stimulation and the physician recommends that the cycle be abandoned. This is frequently true in the use of gonodotropins without IVF. There are too many eggs, the final HCG trigger for ovulation is cancelled as is the IUI, and the patient is told NOT to try for pregnancy. But she doesn't understand why she has to abandon the cycle. She just spent ALOT of money. She may have HCG left from a prior cycle. So she gives it, and instead of the IUI it is paired with, they just have sex, and boom, she is pregnant with multiples. Happens.

I would not be to quick to start accusing the doctors on this one. I know a medical student whose husband was a resident who ended up with a severe case of ovarian hyperstimulation and nearly died doing this with no medical supervision.

Northstarmom

I wonder about the ethics of the doctor who provided her fertility treatment or how she obtained fertility drugs. I also wonder about the care of her children considering she has so many young children, and she also had a high risk pregnancy.

I also wonder about her children's father(s) and about whether her parents have been encouraging her repeated pregnancies.


"Neighbors said she and her six children -- ages 7, 6, 5, 3 and 2-year-old twins -- live there with her mother. Her marital status is unknown. Family members did not answer the door, but when a reporter called the home asking for Suleman, she spoke briefly."...

Although the successful births at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Bellflower have received worldwide attention, they also have prompted disapproval from some medical ethicists and fertility specialists, who argue that high-number multiple births endanger the mother and also frequently lead to long-term health and developmental problems for the children.

Under the guidelines of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, U.S. doctors normally would not implant more than two embryos at a time in a woman under the age of 35. After that age it is more difficult to become pregnant. The mother of the octuplets is believed to be 33, based on available public records.


Octuplets' mother already has twins, four other children - Los Angeles Times

Northstarmom

"Suleman said her daughter had embryos implanted last year, and after finding out she was pregnant with multiple babies was given the option by doctors of selectively reducing the number of embryos. The woman declined.

"What do you suggest she should have done? She refused to have them killed," Suleman told the Times. "That is a very painful thing."

Dr. Harold Henry said the woman was already pregnant when she came to Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center, and she was counseled about the risks of her pregnancy and on the option of aborting some of the fetuses. Doctors had been expecting only seven babies, but an eighth was born in the cesarean delivery...."
Family: Octuplets’ mother has 6 other children - BostonHerald.com

momof2inca

I would never suggest she terminate her pregnancy, just that she not be implanted with eight (or more?) embryos if she already has six small children (both sexes, by the way). The news stories say that the embryos were implanted. Some doctor had to do that. (Maybe she was untruthful about her situation?)

Northstarmom

"An acquaintance who didn't want to be identified told Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman the mom has four older boys and two girls. "

The same article says the family lives in a neighborhood that has homes with 2 and 3 bedrooms.

Octuplets Mom Has 6 Other Kids, Acquaintance Tells CBS News She Also Has 4 Boys, 2 Girls; 2 Of The Others Are Twins - CBS News

northeastmom

After reading this, I really think that there should be some more ethical guidelines. I am not sure as to where to draw those lines.