campbellmom

We had a similar situation with our son who is now a senior in high school. He started playing alto sax in 4th or 5th grade and was very good, in fact, making first chair when he was in middle school. I loved to listen to him practice at home and wished I had taped it. But in the middle of 7th grade, he lost interest and practicing each day (required 30 minutes) became a power struggle. He didn't want to practice and yet it was required to turn in a practice sheet each week.

We let him stop even though we were very disappointed. It is especially difficult to let a child give up an activity in which he/she is particularly talented. But I don't think you should force an extra curricular activity, especially when your son has a lot of other things going on, as did our son.

I also noted that at about the time of 7th grade, kids start asserting themselves about what they don't want to do anymore. I noticed a jump in my son's assertiveness then and then again junior year in high school. They are making up their own minds and with some things, they should be allowed to.

JHS

Every time I made (or coerced) my kids to stick with an activity they had tired of, to "help them over the rough spot", the only thing that happened was it delayed the inevitable. Nothing good came of it, for them or for me, except perhaps that they don't guilt-trip me about those things the way the zooserkids perhaps do to their mother.

Sally_Rubenstone

He loves his other EC's, and--at least until now--I didn't feel he was over-scheduled because he still seemed to have a lot of down time and spent many hours playing outside with the neighborhood kids. (Remember .. on the elementary and middle-school level, most of these undertakings aren't all that time-consuming. A number of my son's friends play more than one sport in a season, which we have never endorsed in this family.) And also, until recently, I didn't view band as an "EC." I saw it as more of a school subject since it largely took place during the school day (and just two or three periods per week, depending on the week). Now, however, it seems to be falling into more of a gray area between school subject and "activity."

My issue isn't so much about structured time vs. unstructured time. I feel we have a decent handle on that ... at least for the moment. It's really about parental pushing ... i.e., when is it appropriate for parents to say, "This is good for you, whether you know it or not!"? ... a sort of adolescent version of "Eat your broccoli."

soozievt

Sally, I think the "this is good for you" pertains to required academic subjects but I think once exposed to certain electives or EC endeavors, a kid should be able to choose which to do. He gave it a try and if he truly dislikes it, he can plan something else. Right now, I am not sure if he is ready to quit and it is worth one more year and after this, he will be having to make some choices as high school nears too.

Does your school have jazz band? I really see that as an alternative for your son with guitar down the line.

I know Band is a class during school but not only did you say there are some afterschool hours required this year that may conflict with sports but doesn't he have to practice also at home? In that way, it is kinda EC (or I guess you could call that homework). But I also was assuming he was taking lessons on sax and that was part of my kids doing band....private lessons on the band instrument.

My general sentiment is to not make him do band but if it is just a matter of some encouragement, it may be worth not making a change just yet. But if he really asks to drop band, I'd go with that given what else he is doing. Are band and chorus the only things offered during that period other than study hall? That aspect might be an issue for me that he actually is taking some sort of elective. Is he at all interested in chorus? I know he acts.

Youdon'tsay

In that case, I say there are lots of things that are good for you. You can say "Eat your broccoli" and "Eat your carrots" and "Eat your peas" and "Eat your brussel sprouts." And every meal can be contentious. I say choose your battles. I do say "Eat your broccoli and carrots," but I don't make them eat their peas and brussel sprouts. Blech. I hate peas and brussel sprouts myself.

If band if a non-negotiable then make him stay with it. But not everything can be a non-negotiable. Your ds is reaching an age where he should have some choice, but it's OK to say you need to be involved in SOME EC. I would, personally, just let him choose.

JustAMomOf4

Keep in mind that if Band is replaced by "study hall" this doesn't necessarily mean studying will get done.
When my kids were in middle school, "study hall" was mostly useless. Useful for a few kids who needed extra help or needed a make up test but then they could get out of Band or chorus for that. Otherwise it was a big timefiller.

Only you can decide if he is "over-scheduled". My girls did a lot of stuff in middle school - sports each season, band, jazz band, CCD, private lessons etc. Some days they were very busy running from one thing to another but they did learn excellent time management skills.

soozievt

JustAMom, my kids did all those activities at that age too and yes, it helps with time management. I don't think Sally's son is over scheduled and I agree, it is certainly doable. The way I view it is merely the issue of whether he wants to do this particular EC and I am not into making a kid do an EC, but think they should choose which ones they do. I can see a bit of an issue, however, as to what else he might do during this period in his schedule as it is a school period of the day.

blossom

Sally, you need to get a handle on which type of kid you have. I had one who needed a whole lot of down time to be successful- staring out a window, lying on a couch with a book across his face, kicking piles of leaves. Kid was plenty active and a strong student, but when there wasn't enough time to let the brain percolate on its own, it wasn't good. Had another kid who thrived on pushing time management to its limits (not as much as Soozie's kids but the same idea.) Don't know when the brain cells rejuvenated themselves, but somehow it all got done.

In retrospect.... now that both of these kids are high functioning adults, I'd say it's good to encourage the kid who thrives on activity to stick with something to smooth over the rough patches. You'll know soon enough if it's really time to quit, but you've provided some assistance and support in case it's just a temporary thing. If this is a kid who really needs some mental space during the week, then quitting band for study hall is probably the right call. He may need you now to help him put some limits on how much time during the day he's willing to have his brain engaged.

Just my two cents. agree 100% with Soozie that EC's should be things the kids want to do-- kids have to get their teeth cleaned and have a TB test and call grandma on her birthday-- these are in the "because I'm the Mom" category. But playing in a band or cheerleading or horseback riding or handing out magazines in a nursing home-- I just don't think you can mandate that to a kid without it seriously back-firing.

TheNewHans

DON'T DO IT!!

My parents pushed me into Drawing, Piano, Saxophone, Writing, Swimming and Taekwondo classes. My childhood was a nightmare.

oldfort

I insisted on D1 to take piano lesson until she was 18. She played beautifully. There was no pressure of having her to perform or to compete. She wanted to stop because there were other things she rather be doing. I don't regret in doing it. I think she will thank me when she is older.

ReadyToRoll

My S also played the sax and then quit (in seventh grade)...but eventually picked up another instrument in high school which, as it turned out, he was much better at. It's never too late, really. Maybe he won't be a virtuoso that way, but maybe he wouldn't be anyway. Let him find what he loves; it will happen...trust me!

Youdon'tsay

TheNewHans above illustrates why it's important to pick your battles.

wisedad

Read this whole thread and lost track of which poster mentioned coming up with a parenting approach for deciding when and how to give up activities, but that's really what Sally is asking about and it's a great subject for a thread.

It is so hard to see how the arc of your child's life will play out when he is only 12. This thread is full of useful advice.

Now that I've just sent my oldest off to college I'm filled with thoughts about things I wish I had pushed him to pursue a little longer because this summer he's expressed a new interest in some of them, like riding, rowing, sailing, singing and acting. I've encouraged him to look for opportunities to pursue some of these re-found interests at college and since he is fortunate enough to be at a great school with lots of activities, he's plunging right in there.

But if we had not pushed him to pursue those and other activities in the critical middle school years and actively discouraged him from quitting too many of the ones we knew he could continue in HS if he wanted, his HS years might have been empty. Instead, by mid-HS he could see that part of what distinguished him from some of his less successful classmates was his ability to stick with ECs and work to achieve excellence in them, even if the natural talent was a little lacking. Now both our children scoff at parents who they think let their children quit too easily and at their kids for whining. I think psychologists call the trait "persistent striving" and it is certainly what we are all hoping to see in our children.

So here's how some of the MS choices have played out for our children in HS and beyond:

Our son stopped trumpet for the first two years of HS because of his braces, but because he had played enough and at a high enough level in MS, he was able to rejoin band for the final two years of HS. Band, as an unweighted subject, lowered his over 4.0 GPA and hurt his class rank, but he just liked it, for the music and the socializing. So Sally might want to think about making sure her son plays enough to preserve that option for later.

Our daughter was an able percussionist but really wanted to pursue art in HS, so for now we letting her take art classes instead. Maybe she will rediscover band during HS, too. Both children started outside guitar lessons in MS and continue that.

Sally might want to talk with her son about which activities he is likely to want to pursue more mastery of in HS, where the level of many ECS steps up. There is something to be said for pursuing mastery of any EC but you do have to get started somewhere.

All through his MS years our son wanted to quit summer swimming and golf. Tennis he was okay with. Finally, we let him drop golf in 8th grade (mistake I regret) but not swimming. He had never showed any particular talent for the pool but the team was fun for him. Once in HS he realized he wanted to do more "guy" stuff like sports teams and so joined the brutal HS swim team because he knew how to do that sport. He loved it and eventually spent two years as captain and went to state for his last three years.

At our house we evaluated activities based on what they contribute to a child's education and development and whether they are likely to be pursued enjoyably in adulthood. Music in some form qualifies (although Sally's son may be more likely to continue with lifetime guitar than a band instrument) as does art, acting and many sports. And now that we've been through the college app process, we know that schools, like employers, are looking for people who do not quit, who stick with their activities and achieve some mastery in them. If Sally discusses the choices with her son in these terms, they can work together to find the set that works best for him in HS and beyond.

arisamp

We've had this battle at our house several several times. Kids have multiple EC's - both play one sport each season and have at least one (more likely 2) music ECs throughout the year. They are also involved in other ECs (boy scouts, DI etc). Schedule is often very tight - it's very rare for them to have a day with no EC!

Both play the piano - have been playing for several years. D is a junior year and could possibly get a high school diploma in music if she continues to play the piano for the next two years. Will she? That's the big question - I don't see the commitment to practice as is needed at this level. It's usually one of the last things on her list. But she gets very upset/defensive if I suggest quitting. I am torn as well - she's put in such a large time/effort into this, that I'd like to see her continue for the next 2 years. But it doesn't appear like she is enjoying herself. She'd very willingly pick up the violin or the guitar and strum out a song for fun/relaxation.

The conversation is still going on home ...I don't think there's a good answer to this one.

oldfort

"My parents pushed me into writing"? Did your parents push you into reading and math too?

Some parents do feel very strongly that their kids should be able to swim. Yes, they will insist on swim lessons whether their kids want to do it or not.

I grew up with parents who believed other than schoolwork nothing really mattered. It was a battle for me to have them allow me to take time out to learn how to play violin. My violin teacher practically gave me lessons for free. I loved to draw, got into an art school, but was not allow to pursue because it was a waste of time in my parents' eyes.

Maybe today's kids are given too much. They don't appreciate the kind of opportunities they are given. There is another thread about why we spoil our kids. I don't feel my kids are spoiled because they appreciate what's given to them. When they don't, we have no problem in reminding them.

If my kids felt like TheNewHans, I would have no problem in stopping every EC they were doing. It would save me a lot of time and money. I am sure his/her parents just loved sitting outside of those classrooms for hours at a time to create a nightmarish childhood for him/her.