MiamiDAP

"Because others paid for you and yours. " - Nope, not mine!
Paid huge Real Estate tax, the most expensive Private K-12 (by choice) and all kind of EC's, that I didn't push my kid participate, but they were her own choice. In fact, I kept checking if she was ready to quit any, and she has never did and still continues with some thru college. And if we continue with this type of logic, then we can never stop anything that we have ever started paying for.

"We could put that money into community based athletic and cultural centers so that there’s be somewhere to go to participate." - These community based organizations exist and thriving. Kids participate and parents are paying by choice, not because government obligated them to do so. And if there is no enough funds, then it is a personal choice of priority money spending and time spending on job or many jobs if you feel that your family needs your support or plainly saying NO to the next activity / next tournament / next dance / prom dress / boots / house / bigger house or whatever.

DeirdreTours

I am surprised by the large number of posts complaining of administrative cost excess....I just don't see it in my district. My son's high school of 1200 had a principal, 2 vice principals, 4 counselors and 3 admin support persons. And, of course, the now mandatory secruity guards. 10 people to manage an organization that size doesn't seem excessive to me-- None of these folks are well paid and none of them appeared to be popping bonbons- Instead they seemed to running nonstop all day.

Nor do I believe that there are hundreds of people loafing about at the district level--though, of course they are perfectly effiecent. Who is? The massive private corporation my husband works for is pretty ineffecient as well, as is the military, and every other large organization I can think of.

The reality is that beaurcracy cost money and we have beaurcracy because it is the only oversight system we, as a society, have figured out.

owlice

Many schools offer music lessons and art lessons. Some public schools offer dance, also.

I see nothing wrong with this.

owlice

So, MiamiDAP, you are doing without all public services such as policing, right? You also will not be taking any payments from Social Security, is that correct? Because all those kids who you prefer not to educate are the ones who will have to pay for you to get any Social Security, you know.

Youdon'tsay

MiamiDAP, I had a feeling your kids went to private school. And you did, too?

berryberry61

"I really don't think the cost of extra-curriculars is a large percentage of a school's budget. Yes, football and marching bands are extravagant, but many sports can be played on a modest budget."

On a percentage basis, you are correct. However, you know the old saying about statistics. However, if you take into account the huge amounts spent on stadiums and turf fields better than some small colleges, athletic taj mahals for basketball and swimming, etc you would be surprised to see how fast the costs add up overall. And when you factor in coaching salaries - especially in certain big time sports like football, the costs are way our of proportion.

I do not disagree with you that many sports can be played on a modest budget - and that football and the marching band are extravagant. The problem is in a number of schools, the administration can not help themselves and they cave to the demands of outspoken parents like those on this thread which yields not only to unseemly extravagance in football and the marching band but in a host of other sports and facilities as well.

By the way, before anyone thinks I am anti-sports, I am not. I actually coach a sport at the school I work at and I believe playijng a team sport is beneficial to a child. However, that does not mean a parent should not help bear the financial responsibility for their child's participation as I am too well aware of the financial realities of operating sports programs that some folks either want to ignore or push off on someone else to cover for them

MiamiDAP

Youdon'tsay,
I have nothing to do with Private schools in USA. Yes, my D went to private school which I have indicated in all my posts above, stressing that it was by choice. I can add that I do not see anything wrong with this choice. D's school had some athletic teams and it did not have some others. Most public K-12 in USA do not achieve their goal of providing adequate education and we are talking about EC's here. Kind of not very logical. In addition, most private schools in USA still do not achieve proper level of education, they would not stand international comparison. My D went to the best available private school in our area with some kids traveling from neighboring state for up to an hour on a daily basis. While it was the best local school, I am convinced that public schools could be even much better as they are somewhere else and they are much cheaper but more focused on actual education and educational programs. Money is not everything as far as k-12 is concerned.

taxguy

Gee kids can't play football. Gee the coaches can't make extra money coaching. Darn! Are you folks kidding? High school should be about academics, although I do consider the arts part of the academics.

We had our budget cut for our marching band. The band couldn't afford uniforms. The PTA had a fund raiser and raised enough money to buy all the uniforms needed.

If parents don't like the cuts in extracurricular activities, they should band together and raise money to fund the lost activities. Personally, and this is a personal opinion, I couldn't care less if sports are eliminated. I, frankly, feel that we place far to much emphasis on sports and on athletics as it is.

MiamiDAP

Yep, taxguy!
My place of employment did not have merit increases and bonuses and H's cut paid hours from 40 to 36 although H still continues going there every day including Sat. and Sun. If somebody has desire to coach, he is free to do so as a hobby. I have a hobby, I even have to pay for it, taking some classes. I do not mind spending my afterwork hours and some spare $$ on staff that I love to do. School's budget cuts were due long time ago, whole overhoul has been due long time ago bad economy or wonderful economy. Actually, bad education will result in slower economic growth without other causes, anyway. It needs to be trimmed and refocused.

Youdon'tsay

Miami, I'm glad your dd went to a private school you were happy with. I'm all about choice. The line that made my skin crawl is "I do not see why the rest of community with a lot of older people on limited income and a lot of us who are paying for college education have to pay for some kids' interest in sports." I interpreted that to mean that you didn't think your taxes should go toward public schools, but I see now that I may have misinterpreted that, and that it's likely the extravagant public sports programs to which you object.

I'm prickly about it because we had a large retirement community in the area years ago that tried to pull out of the school taxing entity. Made me angry that they didn't see the benefit in educating the populace. This was a VERY nice gated community, no worries about fixed incomes there, just the attitude of "I got mine, to hell with the rest of you."

MiamiDAP

Well, Youdon'tsay, I was referring to EC's, but if you think about it, public system is much more expensive than if each family just paid for school. On average, it costs about $50,000 / student in public school. My D's most expensive school in whole area was $12,000 / year. In school like that, they do what they could afford. For example, the building was very old w/o airconditionning. But as I said, it was the most expensive school. On top of it, we have been and still paying over $5000 / year in real estate taxes, that have been just lowered because of 20% drop in real estate value, I am very thanful for that and will vote for current county auditor in next election.

hudsonvalley51

$50K per student per year for public school? Yikes!!! Where do you live? Here in New York's Hudson valley -- and NYS is one of the most overtaxed states in the nation -- cost to the taxpayer per student is in the range of $12,000 to $18,000 per student. Even in Westchester County the cost averages in the mid-20s.

How much do they pay teachers in your district? Maybe my wife should consider moving.

MiamiDAP

Oops, my wrong! Still, even your numbers seems to be too much, considering that D's class had 33 kids, while whole HS was 160 students. Why it has to be 12-18k /student in public school? D's school had no connection / was not subsidized by any religious organization / church and they had Merit and Need based scholarships also. D and few of her classmates had Merit scholarship based on her entrance test of $4000 / year and some kids had need based scholarships.

Youdon'tsay

Does your school provide transportation?

Roger_Dooley

This is a great discussion! My first reaction is that a group of entrenched bureaucrats are cutting the most visible and popular programs as a form of "I told you this would happen if you didn't give us more money!" Not being familiar with the district, though, it may well be that they have cut every ounce of fat in the central administration, the school administration, and everyplace else, and it was down to holding classes vs. offering ECs.

I'm suspicious, though, because it isn't clear that the board made any serious attempt to find alternate funding sources for these ECs. As someone noted above, when presented with a challenge, parents and students often rise to it with fundraisers, corporate sponsorships, etc. I find it very hard to believe that a marching band apparently so accomplished couldn't find a way to continue with outside funding had there been some advance planning.

It looks more like the nuclear option was taken to prove a point, at least to this casual observer.

In all too many school districts with appointed (and sometimes even elected) school boards, administrative and service jobs, and even purchases, are determined in part by political patronage. Rooting out waste in an environment where so many profit from the status quo is difficult indeed. (Of course, I have no idea what the situation is in the school district that dumped all ECs. Maybe they are indeed caring, self-sacrificing individuals who have already cut their own salaries and benefits before doing anything that would impact their students.)